Open Stack

Sorry for top posting, but this is likely the best place...

I wanted to provide an update from the Ops midcycle about related topics around this. 

The operators here are in general agreement that translation is not needed, but they are also very interested in the possibility of getting some of their long time wish list items for traceability and specificity into the log messages at the same time as the translation bits are removed.  There is an effort and a team of devops working on defining more specifically exactly what the operators want in the messages and providing personpower to do a good chunk of the work.

We hope to have some solid proposals written up for the forum so as to be able to move forward and partner with the project developers on this.
We expect two proposals, one for error codes (yes, that again, but operators really want/need this) and traceability around request-ids.

--Rocky

-----Original Message-----
From: Ian Y. Choi [mailto:ianyrchoi at gmail.com] 
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2017 11:36 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [i18n] [nova] understanding log domain change - https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500

Doug Hellmann wrote on 3/10/2017 11:39 PM:
> Excerpts from Doug Hellmann's message of 2017-03-10 09:28:52 -0500:
>> Excerpts from Ian Y. Choi's message of 2017-03-10 01:22:40 +0900:
>>> Doug Hellmann wrote on 3/9/2017 9:24 PM:
>>>> Excerpts from Sean McGinnis's message of 2017-03-07 07:17:09 -0600:
>>>>> On Mon, Mar 06, 2017 at 09:06:18AM -0500, Sean Dague wrote:
>>>>>> On 03/06/2017 08:43 AM, Andreas Jaeger wrote:
>>>>>>> On 2017-03-06 14:03, Sean Dague  wrote:
>>>>>>>> I'm trying to understand the implications of 
>>>>>>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/439500. And the comment in the 
>>>>>>>> linked
>>>>>>>> email:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> ">> Yes, we decided some time ago to not translate the log 
>>>>>>>> files anymore and
>>>>>>>>>> thus our tools do not handle them anymore - and in general, 
>>>>>>>>>> we remove these kind of files."
>>>>>>>> Does that mean that all the _LE, _LI, _LW stuff in projects 
>>>>>>>> should be fully removed? Nova currently enforces those things 
>>>>>>>> are there -
>>>>>>>> https://github.com/openstack/nova/blob/e88dd0034b1b135d680dae34
>>>>>>>> 94597e295add9cfe/nova/hacking/checks.py#L314-L333
>>>>>>>> and want to make sure our tools aren't making us do work that 
>>>>>>>> the i18n team is ignoring and throwing away.
>>>>> So... just looking for a definitive statement on this since there 
>>>>> has been some back and forth discussion.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it correct to say - all projects may (should?) now remove all 
>>>>> bits in place for using and enforcing the _Lx() translation 
>>>>> markers. Only _() should be used for user visible error messages.
>>>>>
>>>>> Sean (smcginnis)
>>>>>
>>>> The situation is still not quite clear to me, and it would be 
>>>> unfortunate to undo too much of the translation support work 
>>>> because it will be hard to redo it.
>>>>
>>>> Is there documentation somewhere describing what the i18n team has 
>>>> committed to trying to translate?
>>> I18n team describes translation plan and priority in Zanata - 
>>> translation platform
>>>    : https://translate.openstack.org/ .
>>>
>>>>    I think I heard that there was a shift in emphasis to "user 
>>>> interfaces", but I'm not sure if that includes error messages in 
>>>> services. Should we remove all use of oslo.i18n from services? Or 
>>>> only when dealing with logs?
>>> When I18n team decided to removal of log translations in Barcelona 
>>> last October, there had been no discussion on the removal of 
>>> oslo.i18n translation support for log messages.
>>> (I have kept track of what I18n team discussed during Barcelona I18n 
>>> meetup on Etherpad - [1])
>>>
>>> Now I think that the final decision of oslo.i18n log translation 
>>> support needs more involvement with translators considering 
>>> oslo.i18n translation support, and also more people on community 
>>> wide including project working groups, user committee, and operators 
>>> as Matt suggested.
>>>
>>> If translating log messages is meaningful to some community members 
>>> and some translators show interests on translating log messages, 
>>> then I18n team can revert the policy with rolling back of 
>>> translations.
>>> Translated strings are still alive in not only previous stable 
>>> branches, but also in translation memory in Zanata - translation platform.
>>>
>>> I would like to find some ways to discuss this topic with more 
>>> community wide.
>> I would suggest that we discuss this at the Forum in Boston, but I 
>> think we need to gather some input before then because if there is a 
>> consensus that log translations are not useful we can allow the code 
>> cleanup to occur and not take up face-to-face time.
> I've started a thread on the operators mailing list [1].

Thanks a lot, Doug!

I do not know how to reply to [1] as an un-subscriber of openstack-operator mailing list using my Mail client program, but since there is no response from APAC for several days [2], I asked Japanese & Chinese language coordinators and community leader / ambassador to collect and tell opinions on [2].

I am now receiving opinions from Korean users & operators and currently there are about 10 comments all mentioning that log translation functionality is not needed.

I will keep update if I receive more opinion on this issue.


With many thanks,

/Ian

[2]
http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-March/012902.html

> Doug
>
> [1] 
> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-operators/2017-March/01
> 2887.html
>
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