Open Stack

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Steven Dake <sdake at redhat.com> wrote:

>  On 09/23/2014 05:38 PM, Fox, Kevin M wrote:
>
> I'm interested in how this relates/conflicts with the TripleO goal of
> using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.
>
> It looks like (maybe just superficially) that Kubernetes is simply a
> combination of (nova + docker driver) = container schedualer and (heat) =
> orchestration. They both schedule containers, will need advanced scheduling
> like "ensure these two containers are on different servers (nova
> ServerGroups), autoscale resources, hook up things together, have a json
> document that describes the desired state, etc... If that's the case, it
> seems odd to use an OpenStack competing product to deploy a competitor of
> Kubernetes. Two software stacks to learn how to debug rather then just one.
>
>  Kevin,
>
> Thanks for the feedback.
>
> There are two orthogonal points you address re competitiveness.  One is
> the deployment program (which Kolla intends to be a part of).  The
> deployment program includes an implementation (tripleo).  TripleO is
> focused around using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.  Kolla is focused
> around using Kubernetes to deploy OpenStack.  But they both fit into the
> same program, and at some point they may even be remerged into both using
> OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.  Time will tell.
>
> IMO Kubernetes is not competitive with OpenStack.  The way in which the
> Kolla project uses them is in fact complimentary.  In a perfect world
> OpenStack's container service (Magnum) + Heat could be used instead of
> Kubernetes.  The problem with that approach is the container service for
> OpenStack is not functional and not integrated into the release.
>
> It is indeed true that another software stack must be learned.  We hope to
> abstract most/all of the differences so the actual maintenance difference
> (ie what must be learned) presents a small learning footprint.
>
>  Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding what Kubernetes is trying to
> accomplish though. I'm not trying to stur up trouble here. I just really
> want to understand how these two technologies fit together.
>
>
> I don't see you stirring up trouble :)  Essentially this project proposes
> an alternative method for deploying OpenStack (ie not using OpenStack, but
> using Kubernetes).
>
> I did run the idea by Robert Collins (current TripleO PTL) first before we
> got cracking on the code base.  He indicated the approach was worth
> experimenting with.
>

So I think it's a cool idea and worth looking at as you have said.  But I'm
very confused by your statements, it seems to me that there's a
misunderstanding, either in what Triple'O is, or something else entirely.

Given that Triple'O stands for Openstack On Openstack I'm not sure how you
separate the OpenStack piece from the project?  Don't get me wrong, I'm
certainly not saying one way is better than the other etc.  just that the
statements here are a bit confusing tome.

Also, it seems REALLY strange that Triple'O hasn't even graduated and my
limited understanding is that it still has a ways to go and we're proposing
alternate implementations of it.  Very odd IMO.

That being said, I'd love to see some details on what you have in mind
here.  I don't necessarily see why it needs to be an "OpenStack Project"
per-say as opposed to a really cool Open Source Project for deploying
OpenStack containers (or whatever it is exactly that you have in mind).



> Regards
> -steve
>
>
>  Thanks,
> Kevin
>  ------------------------------
> *From:* Steven Dake [sdake at redhat.com]
> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 23, 2014 3:40 PM
> *To:* OpenStack Development Mailing List
> *Subject:* [openstack-dev] [all][tripleo] New Project -> Kolla: Deploy
> and Manage OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker
>
>  *Hi folks,*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> * I'm pleased to announce the development of a new project Kolla which is
> Greek for glue :). Kolla has a goal of providing an implementation that
> deploys OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker. This project will begin as a
> StackForge project separate from the TripleO/Deployment program code base.
> Our long term goal is to merge into the TripleO/Deployment program rather
> then create a new program. Docker is a container technology for delivering
> hermetically sealed applications and has about 620 technical contributors
> [1]. We intend to produce docker images for a variety of platforms
> beginning with Fedora 20. We are completely open to any distro support, so
> if folks want to add new Linux distribution to Kolla please feel free to
> submit patches :) Kubernetes at the most basic level is a Docker scheduler
> produced by and used within Google [2]. Kubernetes has in excess of 100
> technical contributors. Kubernetes is more then just a scheduler, it
> provides additional functionality such as load balancing and scaling and
> has a significant roadmap. The #tripleo channel on Freenode will be used
> for Kolla developer and user communication. Even though we plan to become
> part of the Deployment program long term, as we experiment we believe it is
> best to hold a separate weekly one hour IRC meeting on Mondays at 2000 UTC
> in #openstack-meeting [3]. This project has been discussed with the current
> TripleO PTL (Robert Collins) and he seemed very supportive and agreed with
> the organization of the project outlined above. James Slagle, a TripleO
> core developer, has kindly offered to liase between Kolla and the broader
> TripleO community. I personally feel it is necessary to start from a nearly
> empty repository when kicking off a new project. As a result, there is
> limited code in the repository [4] at this time. I suspect folks will start
> cranking out a kick-ass implementation once the Kolla/Stackforge
> integration support is reviewed by the infra team [5]. The initial core
> team is composed of Steven Dake, Ryan Hallisey, James Lebocki, Jeff Peeler,
> James Slagle, Lars Kellogg-Sedman, and David Vossel. The core team will be
> reviewed every 6 weeks to add fresh developers. Please join the core team
> in designing and inventing this rockin' new technology! Regards -steve
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ [1]
> https://github.com/docker/docker <https://github.com/docker/docker> [2]
> https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes
> <https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes> [3]
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla
> <https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla> [4]
> https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow
> <https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow> [5]
> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/
> <https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/> *
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenStack-dev mailing listOpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.orghttp://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenStack-dev mailing list
> OpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/attachments/20140923/f7b0ad8e/attachment.html>