<div dir="ltr"><br><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:06 PM, Steven Dake <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sdake@redhat.com" target="_blank">sdake@redhat.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
  
    
  
  <div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000"><span class="">
    <div>On 09/23/2014 05:38 PM, Fox, Kevin M
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      
      
      <div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt">I'm interested in how this
        relates/conflicts with the TripleO goal of using OpenStack to
        deploy OpenStack.<br>
        <br>
        It looks like (maybe just superficially) that Kubernetes is
        simply a combination of (nova + docker driver) = container
        schedualer and (heat) = orchestration. They both schedule
        containers, will need advanced scheduling like "ensure these two
        containers are on different servers (nova ServerGroups),
        autoscale resources, hook up things together, have a json
        document that describes the desired state, etc... If that's the
        case, it seems odd to use an OpenStack competing product to
        deploy a competitor of Kubernetes. Two software stacks to learn
        how to debug rather then just one.<br>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote></span>
    Kevin,<br>
    <br>
    Thanks for the feedback.<br>
    <br>
    There are two orthogonal points you address re competitiveness.  One
    is the deployment program (which Kolla intends to be a part of). 
    The deployment program includes an implementation (tripleo). 
    TripleO is focused around using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack. 
    Kolla is focused around using Kubernetes to deploy OpenStack.  But
    they both fit into the same program, and at some point they may even
    be remerged into both using OpenStack to deploy OpenStack.  Time
    will tell.<br>
    <br>
    IMO Kubernetes is not competitive with OpenStack.  The way in which
    the Kolla project uses them is in fact complimentary.  In a perfect
    world OpenStack's container service (Magnum) + Heat could be used
    instead of Kubernetes.  The problem with that approach is the
    container service for OpenStack is not functional and not integrated
    into the release.<br>
    <br>
    It is indeed true that another software stack must be learned.  We
    hope to abstract most/all of the differences so the actual
    maintenance difference (ie what must be learned) presents a small
    learning footprint.<span class=""><br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite">
      <div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt">
        Maybe I'm just totally misunderstanding what Kubernetes is
        trying to accomplish though. I'm not trying to stur up trouble
        here. I just really want to understand how these two
        technologies fit together.<br>
        <br>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br></span>
    I don't see you stirring up trouble :)  Essentially this project
    proposes an alternative method for deploying OpenStack (ie not using
    OpenStack, but using Kubernetes).<br>
    <br>
    I did run the idea by Robert Collins (current TripleO PTL) first
    before we got cracking on the code base.  He indicated the approach
    was worth experimenting with.<br></div></blockquote><div> </div><div>So I think it's a cool idea and worth looking at as you have said.  But I'm very confused by your statements, it seems to me that there's a misunderstanding, either in what Triple'O is, or something else entirely.</div><div><br></div><div>Given that Triple'O stands for Openstack On Openstack I'm not sure how you separate the OpenStack piece from the project?  Don't get me wrong, I'm certainly not saying one way is better than the other etc.  just that the statements here are a bit confusing tome.</div><div><br></div><div>Also, it seems REALLY strange that Triple'O hasn't even graduated and my limited understanding is that it still has a ways to go and we're proposing alternate implementations of it.  Very odd IMO.</div><div><br></div><div>That being said, I'd love to see some details on what you have in mind here.  I don't necessarily see why it needs to be an "OpenStack Project" per-say as opposed to a really cool Open Source Project for deploying OpenStack containers (or whatever it is exactly that you have in mind).  </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div bgcolor="#FFFFFF" text="#000000">
    <br>
    Regards<br>
    -steve<br>
    <br>
    <br>
    <blockquote type="cite"><span class="">
      <div style="direction:ltr;font-family:Tahoma;color:#000000;font-size:10pt">
        Thanks,<br>
        Kevin<br>
        <div style="font-family:Times New Roman;color:#000000;font-size:16px">
          <hr>
          <div style="direction:ltr"><font color="#000000" face="Tahoma"><b>From:</b> Steven Dake
              [<a href="mailto:sdake@redhat.com" target="_blank">sdake@redhat.com</a>]<br>
              <b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, September 23, 2014 3:40 PM<br>
              <b>To:</b> OpenStack Development Mailing List<br>
              <b>Subject:</b> [openstack-dev] [all][tripleo] New Project
              -> Kolla: Deploy and Manage OpenStack using Kubernetes
              and Docker<br>
            </font><br>
          </div>
          <div><b><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Hi folks,</span></b><b style="font-weight:normal"><b><br>
              </b>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
                  I'm pleased to announce the development of a new
                  project Kolla which is Greek for glue :). Kolla has a
                  goal of providing an implementation that deploys
                  OpenStack using Kubernetes and Docker. This project
                  will begin as a StackForge project separate from the
                  TripleO/Deployment program code base. Our long term
                  goal is to merge into the TripleO/Deployment program
                  rather then create a new program.<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Docker is a container technology
                  for delivering hermetically sealed applications and
                  has about 620 technical contributors [1]. We intend to
                  produce docker images for a variety of platforms
                  beginning with Fedora 20. We are completely open to
                  any distro support, so if folks want to add new Linux
                  distribution to Kolla please feel free to submit
                  patches :)<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
                <span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">Kubernetes at the most basic
                  level is a Docker scheduler produced by and used
                  within Google [2]. Kubernetes has in excess of 100
                  technical contributors. Kubernetes is more then just a
                  scheduler, it provides additional functionality such
                  as load balancing and scaling and has a significant
                  roadmap.<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
                  The #tripleo channel on Freenode will be used for
                  Kolla developer and user communication. Even though we
                  plan to become part of the Deployment program long
                  term, as we experiment we believe it is best to hold a
                  separate weekly one hour IRC meeting on Mondays at
                  2000 UTC in #openstack-meeting [3].<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
                  This project has been discussed with the current
                  TripleO PTL (Robert Collins) and he seemed very
                  supportive and agreed with the organization of the
                  project outlined above.
                </span><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">James
                    Slagle, a TripleO core developer, has kindly offered
                    to liase between Kolla and the broader TripleO
                    community.
                    <br>
                  </span></span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-weight:normal"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
                  </span></span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">I personally feel it is
                  necessary to start from a nearly empty repository when
                  kicking off a new project. As a result, there is
                  limited code in the repository [4] at this time. I
                  suspect folks will start cranking out a kick-ass
                  implementation once the Kolla/Stackforge integration
                  support is reviewed by the infra team [5].<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
                <span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">The initial core team is
                  composed of Steven Dake, Ryan Hallisey, James Lebocki,
                  Jeff Peeler, James Slagle, Lars Kellogg-Sedman, and
                  David Vossel. The core team will be reviewed every 6
                  weeks to add fresh developers.<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
                  Please join the core team in designing and inventing
                  this rockin' new technology!<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"><br>
                  Regards<br>
                  -steve<br>
                </span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
                <b>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~</b><br>
                <span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
              <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><b><span style="font-weight:normal"></span></b></p>
              <b>
                <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><br>
                  <span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span></p>
                <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[1]
                    <a href="https://github.com/docker/docker" target="_blank">
                      https://github.com/docker/docker</a> [2] <a href="https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes" target="_blank">
                      https://github.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/kubernetes</a><br>
                  </span></p>
                <p dir="ltr" style="line-height:1.15;margin-top:0pt;margin-bottom:0pt"><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap">[3]
                    <a href="https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla" target="_blank">
                      https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Meetings/Kolla</a>
                    [4] <a href="https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow" target="_blank">
                      https://github.com/jlabocki/superhappyfunshow</a>
                    [5] <a href="https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/" target="_blank">
                      https://review.openstack.org/#/c/122972/</a></span></p>
              </b><br>
              <span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span><span style="font-size:15px;font-family:Arial;color:#000000;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;font-variant:normal;text-decoration:none;vertical-align:baseline;white-space:pre-wrap"></span>
            </b></div>
        </div>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset></fieldset>
      <br>
      </span><span class=""><pre>_______________________________________________
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</pre>
    </span></blockquote>
    <br>
  </div>

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