[openstack-dev] [kolla][tc] Video Meetings - input requested

Doug Hellmann doug at doughellmann.com
Wed Dec 14 17:05:58 UTC 2016

Excerpts from Michał Jastrzębski's message of 2016-12-14 09:56:46 -0600:
> OK, I think we had some grave misunderstandings here.
> 1. ad-hoc meetings *are not* and *were never meant to be* replacement
> for weekly meetings. Kolla community is single community across all
> its deliverables and we hold common meetings, chats and mailing list.
> Also, as long as I'm PTL, I'm unwilling to change that.
> 2. Hangouts were never exclusive purposefully. Meeting link was always
> posted on irc, and nobody were excluded apart from people not present
> on irc at given time.
> 3. Language barrier is something to acknowledge. I would say if we
> find ourselves in situation where one of hangout users has problem
> communicating, we either move to IRC or try hard to accommodate his or
> hers language barrier. But on few hangouts I was on, that was not the
> case. If somebody didn't join because they were ashamed, please, feel
> free to approach me on private message (or if I'm not around, hangout
> organizer) and let me know. That would be reason enough to stick to
> IRC in my book
> 4. Hangouts were never exclusive to core team. Just happened that core
> reviewers were majority of it - not planned or enforced.
> 5. Only "exclusiveness" I can think of in context of ad hoc meetings
> are that people who aren't around irc cannot have voice on this
> meeting. Simply because they aren't around and meeting was unplanned.
> That's the case with *any* discussion outside of dedicated 1hr every
> week. Granted, irc has logs. Hangouts can have notes, or outcome could
> be reflected as PoC in gerrit for example (which was the case of
> hangout in question..).

As has been pointed out elsewhere in this thread, the Google Hangout
service itself is *blocked* in some countries. It is therefore by
definition not something we can call a fully open meeting venue. Which
is not to say it can never be used, but we all need to be aware of the
fact that choosing it means we exclude participation from other team
members (or potential team members).


> Ian, you mentioned that gerrit as outcome of hangout violates 4 opens...how?
> Cheers,
> Michal
> On 14 December 2016 at 09:07, Ian Cordasco <sigmavirus24 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com>
> > Reply: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> > Date: December 14, 2016 at 08:08:33
> > To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> > Subject:  Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][tc] Video Meetings - input requested
> >
> >> On Dec 14, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Taking you to the extreme of your statement, it seems there are several of these "ad hoc"
> >> meetings a week (by inc0's admission). The video meetings seem to replace the time that
> >> sub-team is missing in the weekly IRC meeting, which Jeffrey has a plan to solve for.
> >> >
> >> > Also, based on inc0's email, it seems that these meetings consistently are made up primarily
> >> (if not singularly) of "cores". So they seem to be violating the open's in that they're
> >> effectively (even if not intentionally) creating a place where only sub-groups of people
> >> working on kolla (k8s) can collaborate.
> >> >
> >> > Further, the kolla team seems to think that code submissions sent after a meeting are
> >> sufficient artifacts from the meeting, which there seems to be a majority who feel otherwise.
> >> Based on Jeffrey's descriptions, inc0's emails, and the rest of this thread, it seems
> >> quite clear that kolla isn't obeying one of the 4 opens.
> >>
> >> Sorry, the conversation seems to have forked. The original issue was Kolla’s practices,
> >> which then forked into a more general discussion. I was responding to the general side
> >> of things: you can’t say that hangouts or hallway conversations are never good things.
> >> But when they are misused, as is described in the Kolla case, then yes, that should not
> >> be allowed to continue.
> >
> > No worries. I was trying to bring us back to the Kolla case. If we want to discuss more general guidelines around this stuff, I'd rather not hijack this thread because it highlights serious problems in how Kolla is operating that a member of its team has brought up. I don't want us to side-track that conversation too severely. :)
> >
> > --
> > Ian Cordasco
> >
> >
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