[openstack-dev] [kolla][tc] Video Meetings - input requested

Michał Jastrzębski inc007 at gmail.com
Wed Dec 14 15:56:46 UTC 2016

OK, I think we had some grave misunderstandings here.

1. ad-hoc meetings *are not* and *were never meant to be* replacement
for weekly meetings. Kolla community is single community across all
its deliverables and we hold common meetings, chats and mailing list.
Also, as long as I'm PTL, I'm unwilling to change that.
2. Hangouts were never exclusive purposefully. Meeting link was always
posted on irc, and nobody were excluded apart from people not present
on irc at given time.
3. Language barrier is something to acknowledge. I would say if we
find ourselves in situation where one of hangout users has problem
communicating, we either move to IRC or try hard to accommodate his or
hers language barrier. But on few hangouts I was on, that was not the
case. If somebody didn't join because they were ashamed, please, feel
free to approach me on private message (or if I'm not around, hangout
organizer) and let me know. That would be reason enough to stick to
IRC in my book
4. Hangouts were never exclusive to core team. Just happened that core
reviewers were majority of it - not planned or enforced.
5. Only "exclusiveness" I can think of in context of ad hoc meetings
are that people who aren't around irc cannot have voice on this
meeting. Simply because they aren't around and meeting was unplanned.
That's the case with *any* discussion outside of dedicated 1hr every
week. Granted, irc has logs. Hangouts can have notes, or outcome could
be reflected as PoC in gerrit for example (which was the case of
hangout in question..).

Ian, you mentioned that gerrit as outcome of hangout violates 4 opens...how?


On 14 December 2016 at 09:07, Ian Cordasco <sigmavirus24 at gmail.com> wrote:
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ed Leafe <ed at leafe.com>
> Reply: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> Date: December 14, 2016 at 08:08:33
> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> Subject:  Re: [openstack-dev] [kolla][tc] Video Meetings - input requested
>> On Dec 14, 2016, at 7:45 AM, Ian Cordasco wrote:
>> >
>> > Taking you to the extreme of your statement, it seems there are several of these "ad hoc"
>> meetings a week (by inc0's admission). The video meetings seem to replace the time that
>> sub-team is missing in the weekly IRC meeting, which Jeffrey has a plan to solve for.
>> >
>> > Also, based on inc0's email, it seems that these meetings consistently are made up primarily
>> (if not singularly) of "cores". So they seem to be violating the open's in that they're
>> effectively (even if not intentionally) creating a place where only sub-groups of people
>> working on kolla (k8s) can collaborate.
>> >
>> > Further, the kolla team seems to think that code submissions sent after a meeting are
>> sufficient artifacts from the meeting, which there seems to be a majority who feel otherwise.
>> Based on Jeffrey's descriptions, inc0's emails, and the rest of this thread, it seems
>> quite clear that kolla isn't obeying one of the 4 opens.
>> Sorry, the conversation seems to have forked. The original issue was Kolla’s practices,
>> which then forked into a more general discussion. I was responding to the general side
>> of things: you can’t say that hangouts or hallway conversations are never good things.
>> But when they are misused, as is described in the Kolla case, then yes, that should not
>> be allowed to continue.
> No worries. I was trying to bring us back to the Kolla case. If we want to discuss more general guidelines around this stuff, I'd rather not hijack this thread because it highlights serious problems in how Kolla is operating that a member of its team has brought up. I don't want us to side-track that conversation too severely. :)
> --
> Ian Cordasco
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