Open Stack

Thanks for the recommendation! I'll definitely hit up the Product 
Working Group next time I encounter an issue.

The two issues I mentioned were really examples of what we've run into. 
I know that both are already on the radar of the appropriate teams. The 
idea was to show that there are roadblocks that we've encountered as app 
developers that don't really meet the original definition as laid out by 
Michael.

Appreciate all the discussion and didn't mean to hijack the thread :)

Sun, Yih Leong wrote:
>
> Hi Jimmy,
>
> I would recommend to address the issue (e.g. block storage to multiple 
> VM) through Product WG (PWG).
>
> PWG is chartered to address end-user/operators/app-developers (users) 
> needs/gaps by means of “user story” and collaborate with various 
> projects for implementation.
>
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam#Collect_Feedback_and_Aggregate_Requirements
>
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/ProductTeam/User_Stories#User_Story_Workflow
>
> http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/openstack-user-stories/
>
> *From:*Jimmy Mcarthur [mailto:jimmy at tipit.net]
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 23, 2016 12:17 PM
> *To:* Michael Krotscheck <krotscheck at gmail.com>
> *Cc:* user-committee <user-committee at lists.openstack.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [User-committee] [app] What is an App?
>
>
>
> Michael Krotscheck wrote:
>
>     On Wed, Jun 22, 2016 at 11:50 AM Jimmy Mcarthur <jimmy at tipit.net
>     <mailto:jimmy at tipit.net>> wrote:
>
>         An example: you can't currently assign block storage to more
>         than one VM at a time. This is something that I think is just
>         sitting around as a patch to be approve in Neutron, but it's
>         causing major problems for us as web application developers
>         that are deploying on top of OpenStack. Basically, as a result
>         of this and the lack of replication in Trove, we can't cluster.
>
>
>         It's remarkably difficult to get integrated in IRC channels
>         without knowing the lingo. Is there some suggestion from the
>         user committee about where users like us could turn?
>
>     To address this specific issue: It sounds like you want to land a
>     specific feature in Neutron. The correct place to advocate for
>     this is the weekly neutron meeting. As someone who's recently
>     landed a cross-project feature (in 23 different projects), I can
>     confidently say that every team is open to - if occasionally
>     grumpy about - unscheduled features that aren't on their roadmap.
>     It took me only a few questions, and quite a bit of humility, to
>     be given a primer on each teams' approval governance, approval
>     process, and roadmap feature selection.
>
> Maybe I wasn't clear about my role in OpenStack :) I'm not an 
> OpenStack developer. I'm a web and mobile application developer (more 
> appropriately, a project manager) that hosts our sites on OpenStack 
> public cloud. I don't have a patch to land in Neutron. I understand 
> that it was already done and is waiting for approval by that team.
>
>     OpenStack's governance empowers those who are willing to advocate
>     for themselves, as long as they are willing to back their requests
>     with actual code. I'm sure that Neutron would be very happy to
>     address and shepherd any patches you'd be willing to provide.
>
> Keep in mind that there is no place that I can currently advocate for 
> my team, which is why I'm raising the point :) I work for the 
> Foundation building web and mobile applications, but rely on OpenStack 
> for infrastructure. Specifically, we're running on the Rackspace cloud 
> in the same data center as Infra. The features I mention aren't within 
> our skill set to develop, but they're critical if OpenStack is to 
> become a viable option on which to host scalable web applications that 
> need to share data/resources.  Though I'm sure many could do it very 
> ably, I don't expect OpenStack developers to come and write PHP or 
> javascript in order to use our website. We're valid users of the 
> software you all are doing such a great job of building.
>
>     In regards to understanding the IRC 'lingo', I don't really know
>     what that could refer to. Could you clarify?
>
> Like any software product, there is common nomenclature that defines 
> it. Even reading the documentation can't possibly catch you up on the 
> history of the project and the people, especially since so much of it 
> takes place in IRC. If you're not out to become a full time OpenStack 
> developer and simply need something to work in a particular way, 
> trying to integrate with that project can be pretty tough.
>
> I certainly don't mean to start a great debate, but I would encourage 
> you to think of app developers that don't use OpenStack SDKs as well 
> as those that do. If we're not providing a place for those users to 
> deliver feedback and communicate, we could be missing out on lots of 
> opportunities to study /how/ they are using the software. Companies 
> (both large and small) don't always have the resources to contribute 
> back to OpenStack anymore than every user of Ubuntu can contribute 
> upstream.  There is a whole world of application developers out there 
> that have no need/ability to be involved at that level.
>
> Cheers!
> Jimmy
>
>
>     Michael Krotscheck
>

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