Open Stack

Or to really simplify this question Chris,

How can App-Eco-WG help get more tribes engaged in putting their apps on:
https://apps.openstack.org/

/Flanders

On Sat, Jan 23, 2016 at 9:34 AM, David F Flanders <flanders at openstack.org>
wrote:

> Hi Chris, [Aside: I was very impressed by your work on the app catalogue
> and think your expertise in this WG would be valuable.]
>
> Welcome, welcome, I've recently joined the app-eco-wg so figuring out
> stuff myself[1].  Below is what I've learned.
>
> The question I'm hoping you (and the rest of the [user-committee]s can
> comment upon:
>
> Whom do you think should be the target (priority) AppDev audiences for
> consuming APIs?
> Or in other words, how can the AppEco-WG help recruit different user
> audiences (tribes) to utilise the APIs?
>
> Thus far the list of tribes I've been working on, whom will need to
> understand how to interface with the APIs includes:
>
>    1. SDK Developers <-- for me the "my 1st cloud app" guide (and
>    forthcoming training) should help model how SDK developers provide guidance
>    for their SDKs,
>    2. Container application developers, i.e. docker, rkt, kuryr, open
>    container spec, etc.
>    3. Lightweight O/S, i.e. Core OS, CentOS, LXD, etc.
>    4. Virtualisation, i.e. VMWare, LXD, etc.
>    5. Orchestration/Configuration, i.e. Chef, Puppet, Ansible, Salt, etc.
>    6. PaaS platforms, i.e. Mesos, Kubernetes, Cloud Foundry, etc.
>    7. OpenStack App-Dev projects, a la Murano, Solum, Magnum
>    8. Scientific-WG, i.e. how will HPC/HTC users want to utilise the APIs
>    9. Mobile / IoT developers / {other subset collections of SDKs to meet
>    varying vertical app dev needs}
>    10. ??? WHO ELSE ???
>
> Accordingly, my two questions for the above list are:
>
> i.) what appDev tribes are missing from the above?
> ii.) what should be the priority of the list above?
>
> And (for bonus points):
>
> iii.) how can app-eco-wg facilitate support for the AppDev tribes we want
> to engage (including the work we are already doing)?
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Flanders
> Community Wrangler
> OpenStack Foundation
> [1]=
> http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/meet-openstack-s-community-wrangler-david-flanders
>
> On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Christopher Aedo <doc at aedo.net> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Stefano Maffulli <stefano at openstack.org>
>> wrote:
>> > On 01/19/2016 11:44 AM, Christopher Aedo wrote:
>> >> In our meeting yesterday I had some questions about who we are
>> >> targeting with the "first OpenStack application" effort[3], and on the
>> >> call there was agreement that this is still unclear.  I spent some
>> >> time looking through the mailing list archives as well but did not
>> >> find anything definitive (though PLEASE point me at any conversations
>> >> I've missed on this topic).
>> >
>> > I don't recall many conversations on that topic but the target of the
>> > guide is defined on the guide itself:
>> >
>> >         This guide is for experienced software developers who want to
>> >         deploy applications to OpenStack clouds.
>> >
>> >         If you are familiar with OpenStack but have not created a cloud
>> >         application in general or an OpenStack application in
>> >         particular, this section teaches you how to program with
>> >         OpenStack components.
>> >
>> >> I'm hoping on this thread we can get clarity around the particular app
>> >> and app developer we hope will benefit from this work.  Mainly that's
>> >> because OpenStack is at it's heart an IaaS, not a PaaS.
>> >
>> > Indeed, one of the things I noticed in the report is the praise for
>> > Azure and its integration with git: OpenStack doesn't do that and
>> > probably never will.
>>
>> Yeah that's not a fair point of comparison unless you include Solum,
>> or something else serving as a PaaS on top of OpenStack.  But it's
>> easy to get off into the weeds so maybe this topic gets its own thread
>> soon :)
>>
>> >> My take is that we are targeting very large scale apps (at the far
>> >> extreme, think Netflix) vs. your typical LAMP stack (a low-volume
>> >> Wordpress blog for instance).  If that is the scale we're talking
>> >> about, agreeing on that will better inform the guidance we provide to
>> >> the developers.
>> >>
>> >> Alternatively, if we're thinking of smaller apps expected to be
>> >> available in a marketplace (like https://apps.openstack.org), that
>> >> will obviously impact our message and guidance.
>> >
>> > You presented these options as mutually exclusive: I'm not sure that's
>> > your intention... I don't think they are: this group has the opportunity
>> > to provide inspirations to both groups of developers and deployers.
>> >
>> > The first app tutorial is only one of the many tools we can use for
>> > that. I think more basic howtos describing real-world applications (even
>> > a basic Wordpress setup, for example) may contribute to getting more
>> > developers interested in using OpenStack. The Workload Reference
>> > Architecture will hopefully provide content along these lines.
>>
>> I was going to argue that we need a simpler "first app" guide, but
>> after spending a whole lot more time reading through the shade one[1]
>> I talked myself out of it.  This is REALLY great work, and introduces
>> a bunch of key concepts in a way that I do not think is too confusing
>> or out of scope after all.
>>
>> I think more than anything I was reacting to the blog post and and
>> analysis of the app developer experience.  Unfortunately the
>> conversation is being tainted by concerns around how to define a
>> "standard" OpenStack cloud, and a few other issues that at first blush
>> I thought were outside the scope of what the App Dev WG should be
>> concerned with.  But the more time I spend thinking about it, the more
>> relevant I realize some of these concerns are  (though some are still
>> only peripherally relevant to a "first app" guide; like new user
>> signup, billing oddities and conflating PaaS and IaaS features for
>> instance).
>>
>> I very much agree that we could use a more basic howto as well.  I've
>> definitely spent some time thinking about these easier cases from the
>> context of beefing up content in the App Catalog.  I think I can help
>> on this front at least, and look forward to contributing something
>> here.
>>
>> [1]: http://developer.openstack.org/draft/firstapp-shade/
>>
>> -Christopher
>>
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>> User-committee at lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee
>>
>
>
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