Open Stack

Hi Chris, [Aside: I was very impressed by your work on the app catalogue
and think your expertise in this WG would be valuable.]

Welcome, welcome, I've recently joined the app-eco-wg so figuring out stuff
myself[1].  Below is what I've learned.

The question I'm hoping you (and the rest of the [user-committee]s can
comment upon:

Whom do you think should be the target (priority) AppDev audiences for
consuming APIs?
Or in other words, how can the AppEco-WG help recruit different user
audiences (tribes) to utilise the APIs?

Thus far the list of tribes I've been working on, whom will need to
understand how to interface with the APIs includes:

   1. SDK Developers <-- for me the "my 1st cloud app" guide (and
   forthcoming training) should help model how SDK developers provide guidance
   for their SDKs,
   2. Container application developers, i.e. docker, rkt, kuryr, open
   container spec, etc.
   3. Lightweight O/S, i.e. Core OS, CentOS, LXD, etc.
   4. Virtualisation, i.e. VMWare, LXD, etc.
   5. Orchestration/Configuration, i.e. Chef, Puppet, Ansible, Salt, etc.
   6. PaaS platforms, i.e. Mesos, Kubernetes, Cloud Foundry, etc.
   7. OpenStack App-Dev projects, a la Murano, Solum, Magnum
   8. Scientific-WG, i.e. how will HPC/HTC users want to utilise the APIs
   9. Mobile / IoT developers / {other subset collections of SDKs to meet
   varying vertical app dev needs}
   10. ??? WHO ELSE ???

Accordingly, my two questions for the above list are:

i.) what appDev tribes are missing from the above?
ii.) what should be the priority of the list above?

And (for bonus points):

iii.) how can app-eco-wg facilitate support for the AppDev tribes we want
to engage (including the work we are already doing)?

Kind Regards,

Flanders
Community Wrangler
OpenStack Foundation
[1]=
http://superuser.openstack.org/articles/meet-openstack-s-community-wrangler-david-flanders

On Fri, Jan 22, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Christopher Aedo <doc at aedo.net> wrote:

> On Wed, Jan 20, 2016 at 3:51 PM, Stefano Maffulli <stefano at openstack.org>
> wrote:
> > On 01/19/2016 11:44 AM, Christopher Aedo wrote:
> >> In our meeting yesterday I had some questions about who we are
> >> targeting with the "first OpenStack application" effort[3], and on the
> >> call there was agreement that this is still unclear.  I spent some
> >> time looking through the mailing list archives as well but did not
> >> find anything definitive (though PLEASE point me at any conversations
> >> I've missed on this topic).
> >
> > I don't recall many conversations on that topic but the target of the
> > guide is defined on the guide itself:
> >
> >         This guide is for experienced software developers who want to
> >         deploy applications to OpenStack clouds.
> >
> >         If you are familiar with OpenStack but have not created a cloud
> >         application in general or an OpenStack application in
> >         particular, this section teaches you how to program with
> >         OpenStack components.
> >
> >> I'm hoping on this thread we can get clarity around the particular app
> >> and app developer we hope will benefit from this work.  Mainly that's
> >> because OpenStack is at it's heart an IaaS, not a PaaS.
> >
> > Indeed, one of the things I noticed in the report is the praise for
> > Azure and its integration with git: OpenStack doesn't do that and
> > probably never will.
>
> Yeah that's not a fair point of comparison unless you include Solum,
> or something else serving as a PaaS on top of OpenStack.  But it's
> easy to get off into the weeds so maybe this topic gets its own thread
> soon :)
>
> >> My take is that we are targeting very large scale apps (at the far
> >> extreme, think Netflix) vs. your typical LAMP stack (a low-volume
> >> Wordpress blog for instance).  If that is the scale we're talking
> >> about, agreeing on that will better inform the guidance we provide to
> >> the developers.
> >>
> >> Alternatively, if we're thinking of smaller apps expected to be
> >> available in a marketplace (like https://apps.openstack.org), that
> >> will obviously impact our message and guidance.
> >
> > You presented these options as mutually exclusive: I'm not sure that's
> > your intention... I don't think they are: this group has the opportunity
> > to provide inspirations to both groups of developers and deployers.
> >
> > The first app tutorial is only one of the many tools we can use for
> > that. I think more basic howtos describing real-world applications (even
> > a basic Wordpress setup, for example) may contribute to getting more
> > developers interested in using OpenStack. The Workload Reference
> > Architecture will hopefully provide content along these lines.
>
> I was going to argue that we need a simpler "first app" guide, but
> after spending a whole lot more time reading through the shade one[1]
> I talked myself out of it.  This is REALLY great work, and introduces
> a bunch of key concepts in a way that I do not think is too confusing
> or out of scope after all.
>
> I think more than anything I was reacting to the blog post and and
> analysis of the app developer experience.  Unfortunately the
> conversation is being tainted by concerns around how to define a
> "standard" OpenStack cloud, and a few other issues that at first blush
> I thought were outside the scope of what the App Dev WG should be
> concerned with.  But the more time I spend thinking about it, the more
> relevant I realize some of these concerns are  (though some are still
> only peripherally relevant to a "first app" guide; like new user
> signup, billing oddities and conflating PaaS and IaaS features for
> instance).
>
> I very much agree that we could use a more basic howto as well.  I've
> definitely spent some time thinking about these easier cases from the
> context of beefing up content in the App Catalog.  I think I can help
> on this front at least, and look forward to contributing something
> here.
>
> [1]: http://developer.openstack.org/draft/firstapp-shade/
>
> -Christopher
>
> _______________________________________________
> User-committee mailing list
> User-committee at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/user-committee
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/user-committee/attachments/20160123/7c0b24f9/attachment.html>