Open Stack

Hi Doug,

First, I don't have any strong opinion on importing Mitaka translation
contribution
from IBM. Any decision is okay to me. The reason is described below.
In addition, as an i18n active member, growing OpenStack translation folks
is important but each language team should be a team.


All comments below is as one of Japanese team reviewer who reviewed
about 50% of strings (> 10000 messages) in Liberty release.
I hope the same thing never happens in the Nxx release.

Before going to the detail, I must apologize my following message is rude,
but let me share my feeling as an active Japanese reviewer.

2016-01-13 0:02 GMT+09:00 Douglas Fish <drfish at us.ibm.com>:
> Hi Akihiro,
>
> I understand your concern. These are translations that were completed
> outside of Zanata, using our previous process. They were translated using
> the same guidelines as the previous IBM contributions. While they are
> professionally done and well tested, they have not been written to conform
> to OpenStack community guidelines. It's likely any issues that existed in
> the previous IBM translations will exist with these as well.

Personally I was disappointed significantly with this. I am feeling
that my effort
to review Japanese IBM translations in Liberty cycle should not be done.
I and some reviewers spent not small amount of time to review them
because we believe our comments will be feedback-ed to Mitaka
translations, but it turns out that it wasted the time.

Regarding Japanese translations, the contributed translations did not have
the enough quality that we could release them as-is from various points.
* Not a small number of terminologies used were not natural to experienced
  OpenStack operators,
* Strings were translated but it seems actual context where strings were used
   were not checked, especially substitutions (like %s, %(xxx)s),
* There are many inconsistency with the existing team guidelines.
(I have various experiences of translating Japanese certification exam
for IT engineers
and I believe I know what quality is ready for such purposes)

We left many comments in Zanata but they are not referred at all..............
We, at least me, made these comments to share our guidelines.....

In addition, Japanese translation team provides a lot of information including
our glossary, contact points, discussion channels through OpenStack wiki page,
but it does not work so far....

I will stop writing my feeling here.

> I agree this is not a good long term way to complete translations. I'm not
> sure if you are aware, but our Italian translation center has completed a
> pilot of working directly in Zanata. Notice the high completion percentage
> for Horizon Italian. I expect to have broader participation in this area
> during the translation of Mitaka.

It depends on the progress of translations of each language and
I hope it works well. In addition, growing translation community is
a good thing in the longer term.

> We would like to contribute these translations to help with the OpenStack
> translation effort. I understand that because they were not translated with
> the same guidelines they may instead be burdensome to the translators. I
> believe this is the purpose of creating the branch for offline translations:
> so that language coordinators can evaluate if the translations are actually
> beneficial to our OpenStack translation efforts, or if they are inconsistent
> with the language's guidelines and more trouble than they are worth. I
> certainly understand that creating and populating a branch does not mean
> that these translations will actually be accepted.

For Mitaka translation contribution, I don't have a strong opinion and
either option is okay to me.

If we talk about only Japanese translations of Mitaka release, server
translations
do not affect GUI translations (and CLI translation if any).
According to our survey in Japan, most of all operators prefer to
English messages.
Considering these situations, I think Japanese translations of server projects
can be shipped as-is without reviews.
We can discuss the translation guidelines for Nxxx release translations
to address inconsistencies and mismatches.

> I'd like to have the branch created so that the review can take place. What
> do you think?

As mentioned above, I am okay with either decision.
I am just concerned and disappointed with the fact that all translation efforts
are being done completely separately and hope it never happens.

Akihiro

>
> Doug
>
>
> ----- Original message -----
> From: Akihiro Motoki <amotoki at gmail.com>
> To: Douglas Fish/Rochester/IBM at IBMUS
> Cc: "openstack-i18n at lists.openstack.org"
> <openstack-i18n at lists.openstack.org>
> Subject: Re: [Openstack-i18n] IBM translations to contribute
> Date: Mon, Jan 11, 2016 11:09 PM
>
> Hi Doug,
>
> Thanks for continuing the effort.
>
> I have two questions.
>
> First, why do we need to use a branch again.
> We already set up the translation platform and IBM team can translate
> on Zanata directly
> as we discussed in Liberty cycle. There is no reason to use a branch
> and push translation bursty again.
>
> Second, is existing community translation guideline per language team
> honored in the contributed translations?
> When talking about Japanese, we saw a lot of different translation
> guidelines on wording in the last IBM translation contributed in
> Liberty.
> As a reviewer, we don't want to comment the same thing again.
> After we Japanese review team reviewed Liberty contribution from IBM,
> we don't receive any feedback/response/discussion from IBM team,
> so I am afraid we need to do the similar again. It need to be avoided.
> Otherwise reviewers will lose their energy.
> Could you comment on the situation?
>
> Thanks,
> Akihiro
>
>
> 2016-01-12 12:54 GMT+09:00 Douglas Fish <drfish at us.ibm.com>:
>> We have translations to contribute for languages
>> de  es  fr  it  ja  ko_KR  pt_BR  ru  zh_CN  zh_TW
>> for ceilometer, cinder, glance, keystone, neutron, and nova
>>
>> These are additional translations performed by the same teams that
>> translated our previous contributions. They have been reviewed and tested.
>> I
>> estimate up to 35K messages will be contributed across the 10 languages
>> and
>> 6 components.
>>
>> Following the process outlined here
>>
>> http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-i18n/2015-September/001388.html
>> I am requesting that a branch be created in Zanata to facilitate review of
>> these translations by the language coordinators.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Doug
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Openstack-i18n mailing list
>> Openstack-i18n at lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-i18n
>>
>
>
>
>