Open Stack

All,

one issue Joshua touched on was options for workload management. While IB
and GPU seem to frequently discussed when it comes to openstack and HPC
they are not so relevant in our HPC environment (3000 ish cores, each node
connected via 1G, scaleout NAS storage, biomedical research, genomics,
proteomics, statistics) ..... many other midsize shops may be have similar
setups. We are just starting to look at openstack for a for a potential
deployment with Ubuntu 14.04. We have good experiences using KVM for some
of our resources. Some of the things we are hoping to get from openstack in
the future are:


   - flexible partitioning of resources for special sauce software (hadoop,
   interactive HPC software)
   - self service for developers and scientists
   - allow research group that spans multiple research organizations
   (internal / external) controlled access to an isolated (virtual) datacenter
   (potentially with fisma compliance)
   - save images that researchers built for later use (reproducible in case
   someone asks how they got to this result)
   - chargeback for HPC resources for internal and external users
   - usage of idle resources for testing in Enterprise IT, VDI ,etc
   - compute fencing (as we are heading to 24 cores per box most of our
   multi threaded code can still only take advantage of 4-6 cores. This either
   leaves stuff idle or users step on each other on shared nodes ....cgroups
   is a bit of a pain to maintain.
   - checkpointing and restarting long running jobs (for prioritization and
   better protection against job failures). perhaps LXC containers as
   alternative to KVM (we use BLCR today but that community is quite small)
   - standardization of our infrastructure
   - potential participation in futuregrid, XSEDE, etc


That's perhaps a lot to ask but we would be looking at a 2-3 year time
frame. What I don't quite unterstand, how would one handle workload
management. Currently we see people using SGE, moab, LSF and some slurm in
classic HPC. Concepts like backfill, preemption fair share and such things
are probably unknown to openstack? If so it would perhaps be acceptable to
run a workload manager on a subset of always-on KVM systems or even
baremetal for classic HPC. But how does one consolidate the reporting,
billing, chargeback of 2 separate systems?

Are there any efforts to integrate workload managers directly into nova?
SGE and Slurm are both open source and would support everything we require.
Or are folks thinking about writing something from scratch in python?

Thanks
dipe





On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 6:22 PM, Narayan Desai <narayan.desai at gmail.com>wrote:

> Brian's right. You will end up doing a lot of work; nova isn't ready for
> this out of the box.
>
> The key problems are:
>  - drivers for virtualization (either via SR-IOV or device passthrough)
> for net + gpu
>  - IO architecture
>
> There is apparently SR-IOV support for IB, provided that you have the
> right hardware, firmware, and driver, though I haven't managed to make it
> work. This provides a pkey isolated multi-tenant environment. THat is
> basically a mellanox only solution.
>
> Like Brian said, Xen is the only way to go for GPU virtualization.
>
> You can do some really interesting things with the I/O architecture. We've
> been experimenting with both glusterfs and ceph. Both seem to perform
> decently well; we've managed to get the glusterfs setup going at 60 GB/s in
> aggregate with a pile of clients. There isn't good integration of all of
> the capabilities yet in mainline openstack, but this looks promising. Ceph
> looks like the mainline integration is better, but we haven't tried those
> things out yet.
>
> At the end of the day, you need to ask yourself why you want to accomplish
> this. If you're running a workload that is well suited to an HPC cluster,
> you should probably use one. If you need multi-tenancy, user control of
> system software, or need to run a workload poorly suited for a traditional
> cluster, then it is worth thinking strongly about. You'll end up needing to
> do a bunch of work though.
>
> In our case, the reason that we pursued this course is because we have
> workloads and developers that benefit from the cloud control plane.
>
> hth.
>  -nld
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 3:30 PM, Brian Schott <
> brian.schott at nimbisservices.com> wrote:
>
>> Joshua,
>>
>> It is something those of us working the gap between HPC and cloud have
>> struggled with.  We lack a strong project team within OpenStack IMHO,
>> although there are several small groups doing HPC with OpenStack.
>>  Hopefully others will chime in on some other topics, such as Infiniband
>> support, but we did some testing with a GRID K2 card for GPU pass-through
>> with different hypervisors.  A talk I gave at the OpenStack DC meetup is
>> here:
>>
>> http://www.slideshare.net/bfschott/nimbis-schott-openstackgpustatus20130618
>>
>> The short GPU answer is that it is possible with Xen, XenCenter, and XCP
>> to passthrough GPUs today, but OpenStack doesn't have support by default in
>> Nova.  This is still in a roll-your-own mode for deployment.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------
>> Brian Schott, CTO
>> Nimbis Services, Inc.
>> brian.schott at nimbisservices.com
>> ph: 443-274-6064  fx: 443-274-6060
>>
>>
>>
>> On Jul 25, 2013, at 4:06 PM, Joshua Dotson <josh at knoesis.org> wrote:
>>
>> Hello.
>>
>> A contingent of my organization, the Kno.e.sis Center @ Wright State
>> University <http://www.knoesis.org/>, recently received a grant award
>> which we intend to use to support a handful of mid-size HPC-style workloads
>> (MPI <-- definitely, GPGPU <-- if possible/plausible) in addition to many
>> mid-size IaaS-style workloads (MongoDB, Storm, Hadoop, many others).  As a
>> third layer, I'm playing with the idea of evaluating an elastic OpenShift
>> Origin atop the same infrastructure.  Approximately $400k to $500k will
>> hopefully be available for this deployment, though exact numbers are not
>> yet available to me.
>>
>> While I'm prepared to build a home-grown small-to-mid-size "classical"
>> HPC, using modern hardware, and a smaller silo for home-grown Openstack for
>> the minority stakeholders, I am hoping to find ways of making proponents of
>> both workloads simultaneously happy, or close to it.  That is, I would like
>> to give my computer scientist users a friendly method of running their
>> HPC-style jobs on a combined performance-tuned silo of Openstack.  Doing so
>> would load-balance the procured hardware and infrastructure with the users
>> who want a Tomcat or a Virtuoso instance.
>>
>> I see a number of serious issues realizing such a goal.  For example, the
>> state of Infiniband vs. Openstack seems not quite
>> ready/available/documented/accessible for such use in production, unless
>> I'm just blind to the right blogs.  The added myriad abstractions and
>> latency virtualization might impose on an HPC task, not to mention cloud
>> software defined networking (Quantum, especially when sans hardware
>> acceleration), seem likely to really get in the way of practicality,
>> economics and efficiency.  That said, most of what we do here isn't HPC, so
>> I believe such trade-offs can be agreed upon, if a reasonable job
>> scheduling and workload management mechanism can be found and agreed upon
>> by all stake holders, grant proposal majority (HPC) and minority (IaaS)
>> alike.
>>
>> I get the impression from my readings that HPC-style deployment (separate
>> from job queuing) against the EC2 API should work.  I don't have a good
>> feeling that the experience would be particularly friendly, however,
>> without paying for closed source applications.  I'm thinking a
>> high-performance Ceph install would help bring up the storage end of things
>> in a modern open-source CoTS way.  I've not done specific research on
>> Lustre + Openstack, but no reports of such a setup have presented
>> themselves to me, either.
>>
>> These blue sky ideas matter nil, it seems, if a sufficiently-large
>> high-performance production-quality Openstack deployment is beyond the
>> funds to be allotted, which is something else I'm working on.  I've built
>> smallish but useful virt-manager, oVirt and Openstack environments here
>> already, but none of them are enough for the very-important HPC job
>> proposed for this grant.  The scientist running the proposed computation
>> gave me following information to clarify what would parity (for his job
>> only) his experience running the computation with an external HPC service
>> provider.
>>
>>    - MPI
>>    - 20 Gbps Infiniband compute interconnect
>>    - 600 cores (those currently used are probably G4 Opteron 2.4 Ghz)
>>    - 4 GB RAM per core
>>    - at lest 2 TB shared storage, though I'm thinking we need much more
>>    for use by our general community
>>    - unsure of the storage networking topology
>>
>> We're in the shopping phase for this grant award and are still playing
>> with ideas.  It seems likely to snap back into an old-school HPC, at this
>> time.  I've fielded communication about our needs to a number of Openstack
>> and hardware providers, on the hope that they can bring something helpful
>> to the table.
>> Please let know if you can point me in the right direction(s). I'm up to
>> reading whatever text is thrown at me on this topic.  :-)
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Joshua
>> --
>> Joshua M. Dotson
>> Systems Administrator
>> Kno.e.sis Center
>> Wright State University - Dayton, OH
>> _______________________________________________
>> OpenStack-HPC mailing list
>> OpenStack-HPC at lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-hpc
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> OpenStack-HPC mailing list
>> OpenStack-HPC at lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-hpc
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenStack-HPC mailing list
> OpenStack-HPC at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-hpc
>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-hpc/attachments/20130725/da6e85df/attachment-0001.html>