Open Stack

On 04/13/2016 08:01 PM, Amrith Kumar wrote:
> Andreas,
> 
> Thanks for your email. I am aware of the reviews you describe below but I was still under the impression that the status from the email on openstack-docs (Mitaka Install Guide testing) [1] and [2] were still valid.
> 
> The understanding I had from those email threads is that the door hadn't yet closed. But I'll defer to the doc team; I think you understand the motivation for my request, and I respect (and fully admit that I don't understand) the complexities involved in releasing documentation.

Indeed, that was stated as an option there - and it seems we didn't
followup on this one in either direction. Sorry about that,

> I trust that if it is at all possible, you will accommodate the request. Of your options below, I would request #2 if at all possible.

If Matt and Lana are still fine, #2 would work for me,

Andreas

> Thanks,
> 
> -amrith
> 
> 
> [1] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2016-March/008385.html
> [2] http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-docs/2016-March/008387.html
> 
> 
> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Andreas Jaeger [mailto:aj at suse.com]
>> Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2016 1:46 PM
>> To: Amrith Kumar <amrith at tesora.com>; OpenStack Development Mailing List
>> (not for usage questions) <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
>> Cc: mkassawara at gmail.com; Lana Brindley <openstack at lanabrindley.com>; Mike
>> Perez <mike at openstack.org>; openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
>> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [docs] Our Install Guides Only Cover Defcore
>> - What about big tent?
>>
>> On 04/13/2016 07:17 PM, Amrith Kumar wrote:
>>> Andreas, Lana, Mike, Matt, and others who've been active on this
>>> thread,
>>>
>>> I've been following this conversation about installation documentation
>> and core vs. non-core projects from afar and was under the impression that
>> the changes being proposed would take effect for Newton and moving
>> forward.
>>>
>>> Today I was informed that after a lot of effort and testing, the
>> installation guide for Trove/Mitaka which is ready and up for review[1]
>> has been placed on hold pending the outcome of your discussions in Austin.
>>
>>> The documentation that is now available and ready for review is for the
>> Mitaka series and should not, I believe, be held up because there is now a
>> proposal afoot to put non-core project installation guides somewhere else.
>> If we choose to do that, that's a conversation for Newton, I believe, and
>> I believe that the Trove installation guide for Mitaka should be
>> considered for inclusion along with the other Mitaka documentation.
>>
>> Amrith, I'm a bit surprised by this email and request. So, let me give
>> some more context.
>>
>> There's a spec out:
>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/290053 for this work which came very
>> late. Bogdan asked on the 23rd of March, and I commented on the spec with
>> -1 on the 27th of March that this is a post-Mitaka topic. Then, on the
>> 29th of March, your referenced change gets submitted -without any followup
>> discussion on the spec.
>>
>> Would you have taken a code change under these conditions for trove
>> itself?
>>
>> While I applaud your team's work, the documentation team also needs to
>> review content you propose for consistency - and that takes time. We're
>> still flashing out some details for some of the guides for Mitaka.
>>
>>> The lack of installation guides for a project is a serious challenge for
>> deployers and users, and much work has been expended getting the Trove
>> documentation ready and thoroughly tested on Ubuntu, RDO and SUSE.
>>>
>>> I'm therefore requesting that the doc team consider this set of
>> documentation for the Mitaka series and make it available with the other
>> install guides for other projects after it has been reviewed, and not hold
>> it subject to the outcome of some Newton focused discussion that is to
>> happen in Austin.
>>
>> I'm glad about the work the team has done and will not block this going in
>> on my own. IMHO think we have the following options:
>>
>> 1) Wait until Austin and speed track this change afterwards based on the
>> outcome of the discussion there if possible.
>> 2) Take the change in with the explicit understanding that it might be
>> taken out again based on the general Install Guide discussion.
>> 3) Do nothing for Mitaka.
>>
>> I'm happy to take my -2 away from the change after the spec has been
>> approved and we've decided which of the options  to take - and for that I
>> defer to Lana and Matt.
>>
>> So, let's discuss how to move forward on the documentation list with the
>> docs team and see what they suggest,
>>
>> Andreas
>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> -amrith
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://review.openstack.org/#/c/298929/
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Andreas Jaeger [mailto:aj at suse.com]
>>>> Sent: Monday, April 04, 2016 2:42 PM
>>>> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>>> <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
>>>> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [docs] Our Install Guides Only Cover
>>>> Defcore
>>>> - What about big tent?
>>>>
>>>> On 04/04/2016 12:12 PM, Thierry Carrez wrote:
>>>>> Doug Hellmann wrote:
>>>>>>> [...]
>>>>>>> We would love to add all sufficiently mature projects to the
>>>>>>> installation guide because it increases visibility and adoption by
>>>>>>> operators, but we lack resources to develop a source installation
>>>>>>> mechanism that retains as much simplicity as possible for our
>>>>>>> audience.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I think it would be a big mistake to try to create one guide for
>>>>>> installing all OpenStack projects. As you say, testing what we have
>>>>>> now is already a monumental task and impedes your ability to make
>>>>>> changes.  Adding more projects, with ever more dependencies and
>>>>>> configuration issues to the work the same team is doing would bury
>>>>>> the current documentation team. So I think focusing on the DefCore
>>>>>> list, or even a smaller list of projects with tight installation
>>>>>> integration requirements, makes sense for the team currently
>>>>>> producing the installation guide.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, the base install guide should ideally serve as a reference to
>>>>> reach that first step where you have all the underlying services
>>>>> (MySQL,
>>>>> Rabbit) and a base set of functionality (starterkit:compute ?)
>>>>> installed and working. That is where we need high-quality,
>>>>> proactively-checked, easy to understand content.
>>>>>
>>>>> Then additional guides (ideally produced by each project team with
>>>>> tooling and mentoring from the docs team) can pick up from that base
>>>>> first step, assuming their users have completed that first step
>>>>> successfully.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Fully agreed.
>>>>
>>>> I just wrote a first draft spec for all of this and look forward to
>>>> reviews.
>>>>
>>>> I'll enhance some more tomorrow, might copy a bit from above (saw
>>>> this too late).
>>>>
>>>> https://review.openstack.org/301284
>>>>
>>>> Andreas
>>>> --
>>>>  Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi
>>>>   SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
>>>>    GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton,
>>>>        HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
>>>>     GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F  FED1 389A 563C C272
>>>> A126
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>>> _____ OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>>>> Unsubscribe:
>>>> OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>  Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi
>>   SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
>>    GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton,
>>        HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
>>     GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F  FED1 389A 563C C272 A126
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> OpenStack-docs mailing list
> OpenStack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-docs
> 


-- 
 Andreas Jaeger aj@{suse.com,opensuse.org} Twitter/Identica: jaegerandi
  SUSE LINUX GmbH, Maxfeldstr. 5, 90409 Nürnberg, Germany
   GF: Felix Imendörffer, Jane Smithard, Graham Norton,
       HRB 21284 (AG Nürnberg)
    GPG fingerprint = 93A3 365E CE47 B889 DF7F  FED1 389A 563C C272 A126