Open Stack

On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 10:21 AM, Steve Gordon <sgordon at redhat.com> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lorin Hochstein" <lorin at nimbisservices.com>
> > To: "Steve Gordon" <sgordon at redhat.com>
> > Cc: "Tom Fifield" <tom at openstack.org>,
> openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 9:04:26 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Openstack-docs] Linking to external install guides
> >
> > This definitely falls under the scope of the documentation effort. Alas,
> we
> > still don't even have the folsom->grizzly process fully documented yet <
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1087483>.
>
> Yeah, my non-documentation concern is that improvement in this area
> requires some improved focus on identifying upgrade issues *before* release
> from the programs actually delivering the code. This is my interpretation
> just by following along the Folsom->Grizzly bug and attempting such an
> upgrade myself.
>
>
What has happened in the past is Razique would upgrade in production,
keeping good notes, then bring them in to the documentation.

Razique documented cactus to diablo and diablo to essex:
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/18053/3 in December 2012.

Alvaro Garcia did essex to folsom in
https://review.openstack.org/#/c/21657/in Feb 2013.

Razique's still assigned to folsom to grizzly.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1087483

He may have decent notes and just hasn't put them in a patch yet so check
with him.



>  > I added a new bug for documenting grizzly->havana <
> > https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1199773>.
>
> Thanks, I have started adding some more specific thoughts about the
> process there. A more general question is where in the documentation suite
> would we expect that content to live?
>
>
Usually it goes in the Install Guide, just the timing is after the release.

Anne


> Steve
>
>
>
> > On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Steve Gordon <sgordon at redhat.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: "Tom Fifield" <tom at openstack.org>
> > > > To: openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > > > Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 8:34:25 PM
> > > > Subject: Re: [Openstack-docs] Linking to external install guides
> > > >
> > > > On 10/07/13 00:48, Steve Gordon wrote:
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >> From: "Lorin Hochstein" <lorin at nimbisservices.com>
> > > > >> To: "Steve Gordon" <sgordon at redhat.com>
> > > > >> Cc: "Anne Gentle" <annegentle at justwriteclick.com>,
> > > > >> openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > > > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 10:38:26 AM
> > > > >> Subject: Re: [Openstack-docs] Linking to external install guides
> > > > >>
> > > > >> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Steve Gordon <sgordon at redhat.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > > > >>>> From: "Anne Gentle" <annegentle at justwriteclick.com>
> > > > >>>> To: "Lorin Hochstein" <lorin at nimbisservices.com>
> > > > >>>> Cc: openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > > > >>>> Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 11:03:05 AM
> > > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Openstack-docs] Linking to external install guides
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> So, for the last few releases, I would update
> > > > >>>> http://www.openstack.org/software/start/ with links to the
> > > downstream
> > > > >>>> deployment documentation. It was natural at the time.
> > > > >>>>
> > > > >>>> What has changed as of last week is that documentation is now an
> > > > >>>> official
> > > > >>>> "Program" and we'll need to propose the goals for the
> documentation
> > > and
> > > > >>>> make a scope for release docs. To me, this change means we
> should be
> > > > >>>> more
> > > > >>>> tight and targeted with our install docs as they'll be part of
> the
> > > > >>>> integrated release.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> Downstream deployment materials tend to cover arguably more
> > > streamlined
> > > > >>> approaches to deployment, such as Foreman, PackStack, Ansible,
> JuJu,
> > > etc.
> > > > >>> The flip side however is these deployment methods are not
> considered
> > > part
> > > > >>> of OpenStack itself and may not in fact be ready to deploy a new
> > > release
> > > > >>> on
> > > > >>> day dot. These approaches also don't necessarily have 1:1
> equivalents
> > > > >>> across distributions.
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> For these reasons my feeling is the documentation "program"
> should be
> > > > >>> concentrated on delivering accurate manual installation steps at
> > > release
> > > > >>> time in a consolidated installation guide as suggested in the
> > > restructure
> > > > >>> blueprint [1]. I don't think however this precludes also linking
> the
> > > > >>> distribution specific materials somewhere as they become
> available,
> > > it
> > > > >>> just
> > > > >>> wouldn't be a blocker to the integrated release?
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> -Steve
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>> [1]
> > > https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprint-restructure-documentation
> > > > >>>
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > >> At the last design summit, we talked about the doc team no longer
> > > > >> maintaining any install documentation at all going forward,
> leaving
> > > that
> > > > >> entirely to downstream projects. I really do think that's the way
> we
> > > > >> should
> > > > >> go. I'm hesitant to maintain docs on a fully manual install (i.e.,
> > > from
> > > > >> source tarballs), since we really don't want people to do that.
> > > > >
> > > > > Yes, I realize now I should have clarified that by "manual" I still
> > > meant
> > > > > using packages - just without aids like those listed in my previous
> > > mail.
> > > > > I think trying to create and maintain documentation of from source
> > > > > installation that would potentially be even harder than this,
> despite
> > > the
> > > > > (potential) issues with packaged builds lagging behind the source
> > > release.
> > > > >
> > > > >> It means that documentation on how to do an install won't exist
> until
> > > the
> > > > >> downstream projects write these up, but since we recommend
> installing
> > > from
> > > > >> downstream packages, I think that's unavoidable. Since we're
> seeing a
> > > lot
> > > > >> more support for OpenStack downstream these days, I think those
> > > projects
> > > > >> have more of an incentive to get their packages and docs ready
> ASAP
> > > after
> > > > >> a
> > > > >> release.
> > > > >
> > > > > My understanding is that at least RPM/DEB packages are likely to be
> > > > > available *very* shortly after the actual release for Havana.
> > > >
> > > > I'll take a bullish line, which may not necessarily be achievable:
> > > >
> > > > """
> > > > On the day that the press release for Havana is sent out, we need -by
> > > > hook or by crook!- to have installation instructions for RHEL and
> > > > Ubuntu, and ideally SUSE and Debian too.
> > > > """
> > > >
> > > > I'm thinking: "if you can't install the software, then it's not
> really a
> > > > release, is it?". Release day is our time to shine :)
> > >
> > > Well, another huge gap that I think exists here is if you can't upgrade
> > > from the previous release it's not really a release. Currently I think
> this
> > > is a huge problem regardless of installation method because the only
> > > documentation available for upgrades appears to be some per-project
> notes
> > > in the release notes Wiki page. A bit tangential perhaps and not sure
> this
> > > is really just a documentation problem but thought I would bring it up.
> > >
> > > > So, feasibility/sanity check:
> > > > * This is unlikely to be provided in time by our friends at RH or
> > > > Canonical, leaving:
> > > > Option 1: Delay the press release
> > > > Option 2: DIY
> > > >
> > > > Personally, I think Option 1 would be terrible for the community's
> > > > "feelings", and tying OpenStack to particular product offerings is
> not
> > > > something we should probably be doing :)
> > >
> > > I've sent a query regarding build schedules for RDO on rdo-list [1]. No
> > > doubt there is package tweaking to be done but nightlies are already
> being
> > > built from trunk:
> > >
> > >     http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/openstack-trunk/
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > >
> > > Steve
> > >
> > > [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2013-July/msg00057.html
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Openstack-docs mailing list
> > > Openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-docs
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Lorin Hochstein
> > Lead Architect - Cloud Services
> > Nimbis Services, Inc.
> > www.nimbisservices.com
> >
>
> --
> Steve Gordon, RHCE
> Documentation Lead, Red Hat OpenStack
> Engineering Content Services
> Red Hat Canada (Toronto, Ontario)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Openstack-docs mailing list
> Openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-docs
>



-- 
Anne Gentle
annegentle at justwriteclick.com
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