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I don't feel like anyone is proposing to end the use of -1's, but that
we should generally be encouraging, accepting, and trusting. That
means if there are major gaps or issues, then the use of a -1 is
perfectly valid because it needs more work. We also need to be mindful
of context as well, and in the grand scheme not try for something
perfect as many often do. This *does* mean we land something that
needs to be fixed later or reverted later, but neither are things we
should fear. We can't let that fear control us.

There are also the qualifiers of "does this help" or "does this harm",
and neither are nitpicks to me. That is also going to vary from
project to project, and even more so case by case based upon the item
being evaluated. That is where the context is important. Perhaps we
need to also, as the community evolves, consider mindfulness. Granted,
mindfulness is hard and can be even harder with elevated stress. Maybe
this is where we should also pitch something like "Stacker Cruises"
with an intermediate forced vacation for everyone. :)

On Wed, May 30, 2018 at 6:11 AM, Dmitry Tantsur <dtantsur at redhat.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> This is a great discussion and a great suggestion overall, but I'd like to
> add a grain of salt here, especially after reading some comments.
>
> Nitpicking is bad, no disagreement. However, I don't like this whole
> discussion to end up marking -1's as offense or aggression. Just as often as
> I see newcomers proposing patches frustrated with many iterations, I see
> newcomers being afraid to -1.
>
> In my personal experience I have two remarkable cases:
> 1. A person asking me (via a private message) to not put -1 on their patches
> because they may have problems with their managers.
> 2. A person proposing a follow-up on *any* comment to their patch, including
> important ones.
>
> Whatever decision the TC takes, I would like it to make sure that we don't
> paint putting -1 as a bad act. Nor do I want "if you care, just follow-up"
> to be an excuse for putting up bad contributions.
>
> Additionally, I would like to have something saying that a -1 is valid and
> appropriate, if a contribution substantially increases the project's
> technical debt. After already spending *days* refactoring ironic unit tests,
> I will -1 the hell out of a patch that will try to bring them back to their
> initial state, I promise :)
>
> Dmitry
>
>
> On 05/29/2018 03:55 PM, Julia Kreger wrote:
>>
>> During the Forum, the topic of review culture came up in session after
>> session. During these discussions, the subject of our use of nitpicks
>> were often raised as a point of contention and frustration, especially
>> by community members that have left the community and that were
>> attempting to re-engage the community. Contributors raised the point
>> of review feedback requiring for extremely precise English, or
>> compliance to a particular core reviewer's style preferences, which
>> may not be the same as another core reviewer.
>>
>> These things are not just frustrating, but also very inhibiting for
>> part time contributors such as students who may also be time limited.
>> Or an operator who noticed something that was clearly a bug and that
>> put forth a very minor fix and doesn't have the time to revise it over
>> and over.
>>
>> While nitpicks do help guide and teach, the consensus seemed to be
>> that we do need to shift the culture a little bit. As such, I've
>> proposed a change to our principles[1] in governance that attempts to
>> capture the essence and spirit of the nitpicking topic as a first
>> step.
>>
>> -Julia
>> ---------
>> [1]: https://review.openstack.org/570940
>>
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>
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