Open Stack

On 08/01/2018 08:17 AM, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
> 
> 
> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 15:37, Monty Taylor <mordred at inaugust.com 
> <mailto:mordred at inaugust.com>>:
> 
>     On 08/01/2018 06:22 AM, Luigi Toscano wrote:
>      > On Wednesday, 1 August 2018 12:49:13 CEST Andrey Kurilin wrote:
>      >> Hey Ian and stackers!
>      >>
>      >> ср, 1 авг. 2018 г. в 8:45, Ian Wienand <iwienand at redhat.com
>     <mailto:iwienand at redhat.com>>:
>      >>> Hello,
>      >>>
>      >>> It seems freenode is currently receiving a lot of unsolicited
>     traffic
>      >>> across all channels.  The freenode team are aware [1] and doing
>     their
>      >>> best.
>      >>>
>      >>> There are not really a lot of options.  We can set "+r" on channels
>      >>> which means only nickserv registered users can join channels. 
>     We have
>      >>> traditionally avoided this, because it is yet one more barrier to
>      >>> communication when many are already unfamiliar with IRC access.
>      >>> However, having channels filled with irrelevant messages is
>     also not
>      >>> very accessible.
>      >>>
>      >>> This is temporarily enabled in #openstack-infra for the time
>     being, so
>      >>> we can co-ordinate without interruption.
>      >>>
>      >>> Thankfully AFAIK we have not needed an abuse policy on this before;
>      >>> but I guess we are the point we need some sort of coordinated
>      >>> response.
>      >>>
>      >>> I'd suggest to start, people with an interest in a channel can
>     request
>      >>> +r from an IRC admin in #openstack-infra and we track it at [2] >>>
>      >>> Longer term ... suggestions welcome? :)
>      >>
>      >> Move to Slack? We can provide auto-sending to emails invitations for
>      >> joining by clicking the button on some page at openstack.org
>     <http://openstack.org>. It will not
>      >> add more berrier for new contributors and, at the same time,
>     this way will
>      >> give some base filtering by emails at least.
> 
>     slack is pretty unworkable for many reasons. The biggest of them is
>     that
>     it is not Open Source and we don't require OpenStack developers to use
>     proprietary software to work on OpenStack.
> 
>     The quality of slack that makes it effective at fighting spam is also
>     the quality that makes it toxic as a community platform - the need for
>     an invitation and being structured as silos.
> 
>     Even if we were to decide to abandon our Open Source principles and
>     leave behind those in our contributor base who believe that Free
>     Software Needs Free Tools [1] - moving to slack would be a GIANT
>     undertaking. As such, it would not be a very effective way to deal with
>     this current spam storm.
> 
>      > No, please no. If we need to move to another service, better go
>     to a FLOSS
>      > one, like Matrix.org, or others.
> 
>     We had some discussion in Vancouver about investigating the use of
>     Matrix. We are a VERY large community, so we need to do scale and
>     viability testing before it's even a worthy topic to raise with the TC
>     and the community for consideration. If we did, we'd aim to run our own
>     home server.
> 
> 
> The last paragraph is the best answer why we never switch from IRC.
> "we are a VERY large community"
> 
> Looking back at migration to Zuul V3: the project which is written by 
> folks who
> know potencial high-load and usage, the project which has a great 
> background.
> Some issues appeared only after launching it in production. Fortunately, 
> Zuul-community
> quickly fixed them and we have this great CI system now.
> 
> As for the FOSS alternatives for the Slack aka modern IRC, I did not 
> heard anything
> scalable for the size we need. Also, in case of any issues, they will 
> not be fixed as
> quickly as it was with Zull V3 (thank you folks!).

Yes. This is an excellent point. In fact, just trying to figure out how 
to properly test that a different choice can handle the scale is ... 
very hard at best.

> Another issue, the alternative should be popular, modern and usable. IRC 
> is the thing which
> is used by a lot of communities (i.e. you do not need to install some
> no-name tool to communicate for one more topic), the same for Slack and 
> I suppose
> some other tools havethe same popularity (but I do not have installed 
> versions of them).
> If the alternative doesn't feet these criteria, a lot of people will 
> stay at Freenode and migration will fail.

Yup. Totally agree.

>     However, it's worth noting that matrix is not immune to spam. As an
>     open
>     federated protocol, it's a target as well. Running our own home server
>     might give us some additional tools - but it might not, and we might be
>     in the same scenario except now we're running another service and we
>     had
>     the pain of moving.
> 
>     All that to say though, matrix seems like the best potential option
>     available that meets the largest number of desires from our user base.
>     Once we've checked it out for viability it might be worth discussing.
> 
>     As above, any effort there is a pretty giant one that will require a
>     large amount of planning, a pretty sizeable amount of technical
>     preparation and would be disruptive at the least, I don't think that'll
>     help us with the current spam storm though.
> 
>     Monty
> 
>     [1] https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
> 
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> 
> 
> -- 
> Best regards,
> Andrey Kurilin.
> 
> 
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