[openstack-dev] [ptg] Simplification in OpenStack

Ben Nemec openstack at nemebean.com
Fri Sep 29 13:43:26 UTC 2017

On 09/26/2017 09:13 PM, Rochelle Grober wrote:
> Clint Byrum wrote:
>> Excerpts from Jonathan Proulx's message of 2017-09-26 16:01:26 -0400:
>>> On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 12:16:30PM -0700, Clint Byrum wrote:
>>> :OpenStack is big. Big enough that a user will likely be fine with
>>> learning :a new set of tools to manage it.
>>> New users in the startup sense of new, probably.
>>> People with entrenched environments, I doubt it.
>> Sorry no, I mean everyone who doesn't have an OpenStack already.
>> It's nice and all, if you're a Puppet shop, to get to use the puppet modules.
>> But it doesn't bring you any closer to the developers as a group. Maybe a few
>> use Puppet, but most don't. And that means you are going to feel like
>> OpenStack gets thrown over the wall at you once every
>> 6 months.
>>> But OpenStack is big. Big enough I think all the major config systems
>>> are fairly well represented, so whether I'm right or wrong this
>>> doesn't seem like an issue to me :)
>> They are. We've worked through it. But that doesn't mean potential users
>> are getting our best solution or feeling well integrated into the community.
>>> Having common targets (constellations, reference architectures,
>>> whatever) so all the config systems build the same things (or a subset
>>> or superset of the same things) seems like it would have benefits all
>>> around.
>> It will. It's a good first step. But I'd like to see a world where developers are
>> all well versed in how operators actually use OpenStack.
> Hear, hear!  +1000  Take a developer to work during peak operations.

Or anytime really.  One of the best experiences I had was going on-site 
to some of our early TripleO users and helping them through the install 
process.  It was eye-opening to see someone who wasn't already immersed 
in the project try to use it.  In a relatively short time they pointed 
out a number of easy opportunities for simplification (why is this two 
steps instead of one?  Umm, no good reason actually.).

I've pushed for us to do more of that sort of thing, but unfortunately 
it's a hard sell to take an already overworked developer away from their 
day job for a week to focus on one specific user. :-/

> For Walmart, that would be Black Firday/Cyber Monday.
> For schools, usually a few days into the new session.
> For others....each has a time when things break more.  Having a developer experience what operators do to predict/avoid/recover/work around the normal state of operations would help each to understand the macro work flows.  Those are important, too.  Full stack includes Ops.
> < Snark off />
> --Rocky
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