[openstack-dev] [tc][fuel] Making Fuel a hosted project

Jay Pipes jaypipes at gmail.com
Fri Jun 16 14:28:03 UTC 2017

On 06/16/2017 09:57 AM, Emilien Macchi wrote:
> On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 4:50 PM, Dean Troyer <dtroyer at gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, Jun 15, 2017 at 10:33 AM, Jay Pipes <jaypipes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I'd fully support the removal of all deployment projects from the "official
>>> OpenStack projects list".
>> Nice to hear Jay! :)
>> It was intentional from the beginning to not be in the deployment
>> space, we allowed those projects in (not unanimously IIRC) and most of
>> them did not evolve as expected.
> Just for the record, it also happens out of the deployment space. We
> allowed (not unanimously either, irrc) some projects to be part of the
> Big Tent and some of them have died or are dying.

Sure, and this is a natural thing.

As I mentioned, I support removing Fuel from the official OpenStack 
projects list because the project has lost the majority of its 
contributors and Mirantis has effectively moved in a different 
direction, causing Fuel to be a wilting flower (to use Thierry's 
delightful terminology).

>> I would not mind picking one winner and spending effort making an
>> extremely easy, smooth, upgradable install that is The OneTrue
>> OpenStack, I do not expect us to ever agree what that will look like
>> so it is effectively never going to happen.  We've seen how far
>> single-vendor projects have gone, and none of them reached that level.
> Regarding all the company efforts to invest in one deployment tool,
> it's going to be super hard to find The OneTrue and convince everyone
> else to work on it.

Right, as Dean said above :)

> Future will tell us but it's possible that deployments tools will be
> reduced to 2 or 3 projects if it continues that way (Fuel is slowly
> dying, Puppet OpenStack has less and less contributors, same for Chef
> afik, etc).

Not sure about that. OpenStack Ansible and Kolla have emerged over the 
last couple years as very strong communities with lots of momentum.

Sure, Chef has effectively died and yes, Puppet has become less shiny.

But the deployment and packaging space will always (IMHO) be the domain 
of the Next Shiny Thing.

Witness containers vs. VMs (as deployment targets).

Witness OS packages vs. virtualenv/pip installs vs. application 
container images.

Witness Pacemaker/OCF resource agents vs. an orchestrated level-based 
convergence system like k8s or New Heat.

Witness LTS releases vs. A/B deployments vs. continuous delivery.

Witness PostgreSQL vs. MySQL vs. NoSQL vs. NewSQL.

Witness message queue brokers vs. 0mq vs. etcd-as-system-bus.

As new tools, whether fads or long-lasting, come and go, so do 
deployment strategies and tooling. I'm afraid this won't change any time 
soon :)


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