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Actually we have a single call create for load balancers[1], so I think that
addresses Josh's concern about complexity in the number of required calls.
As for the complexity of the "concept" of a load balancer, I think we have
improved that greatly with the LBaaSv2 API.

That said, if there are things that jump out at you for usability/complexity
please open a bug for us[2].  We welcome the input!

Michael

P.S. Yes, single call create is not in the main API docs, don't ask, yes we
are working on that.

[1]
http://docs.openstack.org/developer/octavia/api/octaviaapi.html#create-fully
-populated-load-balancer
[2] https://bugs.launchpad.net/octavia/+filebug

-----Original Message-----
From: Curtis [mailto:serverascode at gmail.com] 
Sent: Thursday, January 12, 2017 3:30 PM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
<openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [neutron] Confusion around the complexity

On Thu, Jan 12, 2017 at 3:46 PM, Joshua Harlow <harlowja at fastmail.com>
wrote:
> So I don't want to start to much of a flame-war and am really just 
> trying to understand things that may be beyond me (so treat me nicely,
ha).
>
> The basic question that I've been wondering revolves around the 
> following kind of 'thought experiment' that asks something along the lines
of:
>
> """
> If I am a user of openstack, say I'm an iphone developer, trying to 
> get my 'game' and associated 'game APIs' setup in a manner that is HA 
> (say fronted by a load-balancer), using my custom image, secure and 
> visible to either an intranet or to the large internet then what is 
> the steps I would have to do when interacting with openstack to 
> accomplish this and what would the provider of openstack have to give to
me as endpoints to make this possible.
> """
>

Presumably this is a public OpenStack cloud? If so...

It's been a while since I worked at a public OpenStack cloud, but most I
would imagine will auto create a tenant network and router (if they can
afford the public IPv4s for the router :)) and then when a user creates an
instance it just ends up on that initial "default" tenant network. This is
usually left to the public cloud to implement during their customer
on-boarding process. That is assuming the public cloud is allowing tenant
"private" networks, which not all would do. There are other models.

Now, a load balancer, if that is required, is different and bit harder if
you mean one that is managed by the OpenStack cloud, as opposed to a user
creating their own LB instance.

Perhaps what you are really thinking about is the simplicity of a more "VPS"
like interface, ala Digital Ocean (and now somewhat mimicked by AWS with uh,
LightSail I think). I've always thought it would perhaps be a nice project
in OpenStack to do a simple VPS style interface.

Thanks,
Curtis.

> One of the obvious ones is nova and glance, and the API and usage 
> there feels pretty straightforward as is (isn't really relevant to 
> this conversation anyway). The one that feels bulky and confusing (at 
> least for
> me) is the things I'd have to do in neutron to create and/or select 
> networks, create and/or select subnets, create and/or select ports and 
> so-on...
>
> As a supposed iphone developer (dev/ops, yadayada) just trying to get 
> his/her game to market why would I really want to know about selecting 
> networks, create and/or selecting subnets, create and/or selecting 
> ports and so-on...
>
> It may just be how it is, but I'd like to at least ask if others are 
> really happy with the interactions/steps (I guess we could/maybe we 
> should ask similar questions around various other projects as well?); 
> if I'm just an outlier that's ok, at least I asked :-P
>
> -Josh
>
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