Open Stack

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Flavio Percoco [mailto:flavio at redhat.com]
> Sent: June-14-16 3:44 AM
> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Higgins][Zun] Project roadmap
> 
> On 13/06/16 18:46 +0000, Hongbin Lu wrote:
> >
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Sudipto Biswas [mailto:sbiswas7 at linux.vnet.ibm.com]
> >> Sent: June-13-16 1:43 PM
> >> To: openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> >> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Higgins][Zun] Project roadmap
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Monday 13 June 2016 06:57 PM, Flavio Percoco wrote:
> >> > On 12/06/16 22:10 +0000, Hongbin Lu wrote:
> >> >> Hi team,
> >> >>
> >> >> During the team meetings these weeks, we collaborated the initial
> >> >> project roadmap. I summarized it as below. Please review.
> >> >>
> >> >> * Implement a common container abstraction for different
> container
> >> >> runtimes. The initial implementation will focus on supporting
> >> >> basic container operations (i.e. CRUD).
> >> >
> >> > What COE's are being considered for the first implementation? Just
> >> > docker and kubernetes?
> >[Hongbin Lu] Container runtimes, docker in particular, are being
> considered for the first implementation. We discussed how to support
> COEs in Zun but cannot reach an agreement on the direction. I will
> leave it for further discussion.
> >
> >> >
> >> >> * Focus on non-nested containers use cases (running containers on
> >> >> physical hosts), and revisit nested containers use cases (running
> >> >> containers on VMs) later.
> >> >> * Provide two set of APIs to access containers: The Nova APIs and
> >> the
> >> >> Zun-native APIs. In particular, the Zun-native APIs will expose
> >> >> full container capabilities, and Nova APIs will expose
> >> >> capabilities that are shared between containers and VMs.
> >> >
> >> > - Is the nova side going to be implemented in the form of a Nova
> >> > driver (like ironic's?)? What do you mean by APIs here?
> >[Hongbin Lu] Yes, the plan is to implement a Zun virt-driver for Nova.
> The idea is similar to Ironic.
> >
> >> >
> >> > - What operations are we expecting this to support (just CRUD
> >> > operations on containers?)?
> >[Hongbin Lu] We are working on finding the list of operations to
> support. There is a BP for tracking this effort:
> https://blueprints.launchpad.net/zun/+spec/api-design .
> >
> >> >
> >> > I can see this driver being useful for specialized services like
> >> Trove
> >> > but I'm curious/concerned about how this will be used by end users
> >> > (assuming that's the goal).
> >[Hongbin Lu] I agree that end users might not be satisfied by basic
> container operations like CRUD. We will discuss how to offer more to
> make the service to be useful in production.
> 
> I'd probably leave this out for now but this is just my opinion.
> Personally, I think users, if presented with both APIs - nova's and
> Zun's - they'll prefer Zun's.
> 
> Specifically, you don't interact with a container the same way you
> interact with a VM (but I'm sure you know all these way better than me).
> I guess my concern is that I don't see too much value in this other
> than allowing specialized services to run containers through Nova.

ACK

> 
> 
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> * Leverage Neutron (via Kuryr) for container networking.
> >> >> * Leverage Cinder for container data volume.
> >> >> * Leverage Glance for storing container images. If necessary,
> >> >> contribute to Glance for missing features (i.e. support layer of
> >> >> container images).
> >> >
> >> > Are you aware of https://review.openstack.org/#/c/249282/ ?
> >> This support is very minimalistic in nature, since it doesn't do
> >> anything beyond just storing a docker FS tar ball.
> >> I think it was felt that, further support for docker FS was needed.
> >> While there were suggestions of private docker registry, having
> >> something in band (w.r.t openstack) maybe desirable.
> >[Hongbin Lu] Yes, Glance doesn't support layer of container images
> which is a missing feature.
> 
> Yup, I didn't mean to imply that would do it all for you rather that
> there's been some progress there. As far as layered containers goes,
> you might want to look into Glare.

Thanks for the advice.

> 
> Flavio
> 
> >> >> * Support enforcing multi-tenancy by doing the following:
> >> >> ** Add configurable options for scheduler to enforce neighboring
> >> >> containers belonging to the same tenant.
> >> >> ** Support hypervisor-based container runtimes.
> >> >>
> >> >> The following topics have been discussed, but the team cannot
> >> >> reach consensus on including them into the short-term project
> >> >> scope. We skipped them for now and might revisit them later.
> >> >> * Support proxying API calls to COEs.
> >> >
> >> > Any link to what this proxy will do and what service it'll talk to?
> >> > I'd generally advice against having proxy calls in services. We've
> >> > just done work in Nova to deprecate the Nova Image proxy.
> >[Hongbin Lu] Maybe "proxy" is not the right word. What I mean is to
> translate the request to API calls of COEs. For example, users request
> to create a container in Zun, then Zun creates a single-container pod
> in k8s.
> >
> >> >
> >> >> * Advanced container operations (i.e. keep container alive, load
> >> >> balancer setup, rolling upgrade).
> >> >> * Nested containers use cases (i.e. provision container hosts).
> >> >> * Container composition (i.e. support docker-compose like DSL).
> >> >>
> >> >> NOTE: I might forgot and mis-understood something. Please feel
> >> >> free to point out if anything is wrong or missing.
> >> >
> >> > It sounds you've got more than enough to work on for now, I think
> >> it's
> >> > fine to table these topics for now.
> >> >
> >> > just my $0.02
> >> > Flavio
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
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> --
> @flaper87
> Flavio Percoco