Open Stack

Jim,

Thinking like Kevin's below are the reason I asked for the two requested
changes.  He isn't the only person to think along these lines.  His
argument is coherent and logical and if you analyze his response he
indicates his perception is the four opens are not being followed by Fuel.

It is the responsibility of every OpenStack community member to protect
the four opens.  The four opens are the founding of OpenStack's
fundamental tenants.  Even if the reality is Fuel is participating in the
OpenStack community using the four opens, people may not perceive it as
such based upon the many reviews linked in this thread.

As can be seen by Kevin's email, perception matters.

Clearly Mirantis is committed to this effort with two pages of Mirantis
reviews outstanding.

What precisely is the harm in acknowledging the _truth_ directly in the
governance repo?

Regards
-steve

On 7/26/16, 4:44 PM, "Fox, Kevin M" <Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov> wrote:

>Hi Jim,
>
>The issue is, as I see it, a parallel activity to one of the that is
>currently accepted into the Big Tent, aka Containerized Deployment:
>Kolla's mission:
>To provide production-ready containers and deployment tools for operating
>OpenStack clouds.
>
>Fuel's mission:
>To streamline and accelerate the process of deploying, testing and
>maintaining various configurations of OpenStack at scale.
>
>To me, this totally lets both projects work together, fuel providing the
>bare metal provisioning/kubernetes provisioning, the k8s orchestration to
>manage pods/deployments/etc, its awesome ui, etc, and using
>kolla-kubernetes/kolla for the container bits/k8s templates. Otherwise
>there's a quite a bit duplication of work. This feels in line with fuel
>trying to reimplement another core openstack project (say, nova)
>
>When fuel-ccp was proposed, it was proposed as more of a proof of concept
>and not a big tent thing: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/331139/
>
>If you look at contributions to each of kolla-kubernetes its a fairly
>diverse set of contributors:
>http://stackalytics.com/?module=kolla-kubernetes
>fuel-ccp doesn't show up in stackalytics but if you check the commit log
>its very heavily dominated by one company. That's not really open
>development.
>
>The kolla-kubernetes project was having discussions about how to work
>with the Fuel team to ensure that their needs were met, when they
>suddenly stopped talking and spawned a new project. This doesn't feel
>like working with the community. Our differences didn't feel unsolvable
>to the point of spawning a new, competing project.
>
>Now its being advertised very openly. This feels like it was snuck in the
>back door, behind the communities back then pushed hard.
>
>OpenStack is already distressingly fractured already. Can we try and work
>together rather then keep making an already pretty bad situation worse?
>Are the technical differences really that far apart to prevent it?
>
>Does that help to clarify the concern?
>
>Thanks,
>Kevin
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________________
>From: Jim Rollenhagen [jim at jimrollenhagen.com]
>Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 3:28 PM
>To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [Kolla] [Fuel] [tc] Looks like Mirantis is
>getting Fuel CCP (docker/k8s) kicked off
>
>On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 09:42:10PM +0000, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 7/26/16, 2:13 PM, "Jim Rollenhagen" <jim at jimrollenhagen.com> wrote:
>>
>> >On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 08:36:01PM +0000, Steven Dake (stdake) wrote:
>> >> Dims,
>> >>
>> >> The project-config addition was debated by Andreas before this
>> >>partnership
>> >> in this press release was announced and the full intent of the
>>project
>> >>was
>> >> understood.  The argument I see used in the review  is that since
>> >>fuel-ccp
>> >> not part of Newton, it doesn't need to be in the projects.yaml file.
>> >> Given the intent of the project is obvious (to me) from the press
>> >>release
>> >> to join the big tent, my two requests still apply.  At present this
>> >> project may be perceived as "flying under the radar" and further not
>> >> following the four opens as I already stated.
>> >
>> >I'm confused, what specifically is happening that is against the four
>> >opens? What part of the press release implies big tent in the future?
>>
>> My exact words were proceeded by "may be perceived"
>
>Okay, I'm still confused what part of it may be perceived as not
>following the four opens.
>
>>
>> The press release itself implies a big effort with big contributors
>>hence
>> big tent.
>
>I guess the big tent means something different to me - that a project is
>"one of us" in that they work the same way we do, etc. I don't think
>large efforts or large contributor base matter.
>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> The two requests were:
>> >>
>> >> 1. Please submit the repositories for projects.yaml TC oversight
>> >> 2. Please change Fuel's mission statement to match reality of this
>> >> announcement
>> >
>> >Why? The current mission statement is "To streamline and accelerate the
>> >process of deploying, testing and maintaining various configurations of
>> >OpenStack at scale." I don't see why anything about this announcement
>> >doesn't fit into that mission statement.
>>
>> That mission statement doesn't match intent, which is to produce a
>> kubernetes deployment of openstack.  I don't feel "various
>>configurations"
>> cuts it.
>
>Well, it's unclear to me if Fuel is pivoting completely to Kubernetes or
>adding it as an option. That said, I suspect that many configurations
>will still be a thing, just that everything runs on Kubernetes.
>
>>
>> But its really up to the Fuel team, not you or I.
>
>Indeed, mostly just curious as your email was pretty strongly worded and
>I didn't really understand it.
>
>// jim
>
>>
>> Regards
>> -steve
>>
>> >
>> >// jim
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >> -steve
>> >>
>> >> On 7/26/16, 1:18 PM, "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Steven,
>> >> >
>> >> >fyi, This was debated in the project-config review:
>> >> >https://review.openstack.org/#/c/335584/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >Thanks,
>> >> >Dims
>> >> >
>> >> >On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 3:47 PM, Steven Dake (stdake)
>> >><stdake at cisco.com>
>> >> >wrote:
>> >> >> Dims,
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Given the strong language around partnership between Intel,
>>Mirantis,
>> >> >>and
>> >> >> Google in that press release, and the activity in the review
>>queue (2
>> >> >> pages of outstanding reviews) it seems clear to me that the
>>intent is
>> >> >>for
>> >> >> this part of Fuel to participate in the big tent.  The right thing
>> >>to do
>> >> >> here is for fuel-ccp to submit their repos to TC oversight by
>>adding
>> >> >>them
>> >> >> to the official project list.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Fuel requires a mission change, or it may be perceived that Fuel
>> >>itself
>> >> >> does not adhere to the Four Opens [1] specifically Open
>>Development
>> >>and
>> >> >> Open Community.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regards
>> >> >> -steve
>> >> >>
>> >> >> [1]
>> >>
>> 
>>>>>>https://github.com/openstack/governance/blob/master/reference/opens.r
>>>>>>st
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On 7/26/16, 11:15 AM, "Davanum Srinivas" <davanum at gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >>>And. it's here in OpenStack:
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>Look for fuel-ccp-* in http://git.openstack.org/cgit/ or the
>>gerrit
>> >> >>>search
>> >>
>> 
>>>>>>>https://review.openstack.org/#/q/status:open+branch:master+project:^
>>>>>>>op
>> >>>>>en
>> >> >>>st
>> >> >>>ack/fuel-ccp.*
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>-- Dims
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 1:53 PM, Fox, Kevin M <Kevin.Fox at pnnl.gov>
>> >> >>>wrote:
>> >> >>>> They are starting their own project.
>> >> >>>> ________________________________________
>> >> >>>> From: Stephen Hindle [shindle at llnw.com]
>> >> >>>> Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2016 10:35 AM
>> >> >>>> To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
>> >> >>>> Subject: [openstack-dev] [Kolla] [Fuel] Looks like Mirantis is
>> >>getting
>> >> >>>>Fuel CCP (docker/k8s) kicked off
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> So just saw this:
>> >> >>>>
>> >>
>> 
>>>>>>>>http://www.computerweekly.com/blog/Open-Source-Insider/OpenStack-on
>>>>>>>>-K
>> >>>>>>ub
>> >> >>>>er
>> >> >>>>netes-Mirantis-fuels-Fuel-with-Google-Intel-heat
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Wonder if that means we'll get more devs or maybe some prebuilt
>> >> >>>> containers for Kolla?
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> --
>> >> >>>> Stephen Hindle - Senior Systems Engineer
>> >> >>>> 480.807.8189 480.807.8189
>> >> >>>> www.limelight.com Delivering Faster Better
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Join the conversation
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> at Limelight Connect
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> --
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>> >>
>> 
>>>>>>>>___________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>__
>> >>>>>>__
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>> >> >>>>_
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>> 
>>>>>>>>___________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>>__
>> >>>>>>__
>> >> >>>>__
>> >> >>>>_
>> >> >>>> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
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>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>--
>> >> >>>Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims
>> >> >>>
>> >>
>> 
>>>>>>>____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>>__
>> >>>>>__
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>>>>>>_____________________________________________________________________
>>>>>>__
>> >>>>__
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>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >Davanum Srinivas :: https://twitter.com/dims
>> >> >
>> >>
>> 
>>>>>______________________________________________________________________
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