[openstack-dev] [magnum]swarm + compose = k8s?

Ryan Rossiter rlrossit at linux.vnet.ibm.com
Wed Sep 30 14:57:49 UTC 2015


On 9/29/2015 11:00 PM, Monty Taylor wrote:
> *waving hands wildly at details* ...
>
> I believe that the real win is if Magnum's control plan can integrate 
> the network and storage fabrics that exist in an OpenStack with 
> kube/mesos/swarm. Just deploying is VERY meh. I do not care - it's not 
> interesting ... an ansible playbook can do that in 5 minutes. OTOH - 
> deploying some kube into a cloud in such a way that it shares a tenant 
> network with some VMs that are there - that's good stuff and I think 
> actually provides significant value.
+1 on sharing the tenant network with VMs.

When I look at Magnum being an OpenStack project, I see it winning by 
integrating itself with the other projects, and to make containers just 
work in your cloud. Here's the scenario I would want a cloud with Magnum 
to do (though it may be very pie-in-the-sky):

I want to take my container, replicate it across 3 container host VMs 
(each of which lives on a different compute host), stick a Neutron LB in 
front of it, and hook it up to the same network as my 5 other VMs.

This way, it handles my containers in a service, and integrates 
beautifully with my existing OpenStack cloud.
>
> On 09/29/2015 10:57 PM, Jay Lau wrote:
>> +1 to Egor, I think that the final goal of Magnum is container as a
>> service but not coe deployment as a service. ;-)
>>
>> Especially we are also working on Magnum UI, the Magnum UI should export
>> some interfaces to enable end user can create container applications but
>> not only coe deployment.
>>
>> I hope that the Magnum can be treated as another "Nova" which is
>> focusing on container service. I know it is difficult to unify all of
>> the concepts in different coe (k8s has pod, service, rc, swarm only has
>> container, nova only has VM, PM with different hypervisors), but this
>> deserve some deep dive and thinking to see how can move forward.....
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 30, 2015 at 1:11 AM, Egor Guz <EGuz at walmartlabs.com
>> <mailto:EGuz at walmartlabs.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     definitely ;), but the are some thoughts to Tom’s email.
>>
>>     I agree that we shouldn't reinvent apis, but I don’t think Magnum
>>     should only focus at deployment (I feel we will become another
>>     Puppet/Chef/Ansible module if we do it ):)
>>     I belive our goal should be seamlessly integrate Kub/Mesos/Swarm to
>>     OpenStack ecosystem (Neutron/Cinder/Barbican/etc) even if we need to
>>     step in to Kub/Mesos/Swarm communities for that.
>>
>>>>     Egor
>>
>>     From: Adrian Otto <adrian.otto at rackspace.com
>> <mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com><mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com
>>     <mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com>>>
>>     Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
>>     questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
>>     Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 08:44
>>     To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
>>     <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
>>     Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]swarm + compose = k8s?
>>
>>     This is definitely a topic we should cover in Tokyo.
>>
>>     On Sep 29, 2015, at 8:28 AM, Daneyon Hansen (danehans)
>>     <danehans at cisco.com
>> <mailto:danehans at cisco.com><mailto:danehans at cisco.com
>>     <mailto:danehans at cisco.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>     +1
>>
>>     From: Tom Cammann <tom.cammann at hpe.com
>> <mailto:tom.cammann at hpe.com><mailto:tom.cammann at hpe.com
>>     <mailto:tom.cammann at hpe.com>>>
>>     Reply-To: "openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>"
>>     <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
>>     Date: Tuesday, September 29, 2015 at 2:22 AM
>>     To: "openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>"
>>     <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
>>     Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]swarm + compose = k8s?
>>
>>     This has been my thinking in the last couple of months to completely
>>     deprecate the COE specific APIs such as pod/service/rc and 
>> container.
>>
>>     As we now support Mesos, Kubernetes and Docker Swarm its going to be
>>     very difficult and probably a wasted effort trying to consolidate
>>     their separate APIs under a single Magnum API.
>>
>>     I'm starting to see Magnum as COEDaaS - Container Orchestration
>>     Engine Deployment as a Service.
>>
>>     On 29/09/15 06:30, Ton Ngo wrote:
>>     Would it make sense to ask the opposite of Wanghua's question:
>>     should pod/service/rc be deprecated if the user can easily get to
>>     the k8s api?
>>     Even if we want to orchestrate these in a Heat template, the
>>     corresponding heat resources can just interface with k8s instead of
>>     Magnum.
>>     Ton Ngo,
>>
>>     <ATT00001.gif>Egor Guz ---09/28/2015 10:20:02 PM---Also I belive
>>     docker compose is just command line tool which doesn’t have any api
>>     or scheduling feat
>>
>>     From: Egor Guz <EGuz at walmartlabs.com
>> <mailto:EGuz at walmartlabs.com>><mailto:EGuz at walmartlabs.com
>>     <mailto:EGuz at walmartlabs.com>>
>>     To: "openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>"<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
>>     <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
>>     Date: 09/28/2015 10:20 PM
>>     Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]swarm + compose = k8s?
>>     ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>>     Also I belive docker compose is just command line tool which doesn’t
>>     have any api or scheduling features.
>>     But during last Docker Conf hackathon PayPal folks implemented
>>     docker compose executor for Mesos
>>     (https://github.com/mohitsoni/compose-executor)
>>     which can give you pod like experience.
>>
>>>>     Egor
>>
>>     From: Adrian Otto <adrian.otto at rackspace.com
>> <mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com><mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com
>> <mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com>><mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com
>>     <mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com>>>
>>     Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage
>>     questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
>>     Date: Monday, September 28, 2015 at 22:03
>>     To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
>>     <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>> <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
>>     <mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
>>     Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]swarm + compose = k8s?
>>
>>     Wanghua,
>>
>>     I do follow your logic, but docker-compose only needs the docker API
>>     to operate. We are intentionally avoiding re-inventing the wheel.
>>     Our goal is not to replace docker swarm (or other existing systems),
>>     but to compliment it/them. We want to offer users of Docker the
>>     richness of native APIs and supporting tools. This way they will not
>>     need to compromise features or wait longer for us to implement each
>>     new feature as it is added. Keep in mind that our pod, service, and
>>     replication controller resources pre-date this philosophy. If we
>>     started out with the current approach, those would not exist in 
>> Magnum.
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>
>>     Adrian
>>
>>     On Sep 28, 2015, at 8:32 PM, 王华 <wanghua.humble at gmail.com
>> <mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com><mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com
>> <mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com>><mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com
>>     <mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com>>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi folks,
>>
>>     Magnum now exposes service, pod, etc to users in kubernetes coe, but
>>     exposes container in swarm coe. As I know, swarm is only a scheduler
>>     of container, which is like nova in openstack. Docker compose is a
>>     orchestration program which is like heat in openstack. k8s is the
>>     combination of scheduler and orchestration. So I think it is better
>>     to expose the apis in compose to users which are at the same level
>>     as k8s.
>>
>>
>>     Regards
>>     Wanghua
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>>
>> -- 
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Jay Lau (Guangya Liu)
>>
>>
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-- 
Thanks,

Ryan Rossiter (rlrossit)




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