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Matthew Treinish wrote:
> On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 02:36:48PM -0700, Joshua Harlow wrote:
>> Dolph Mathews wrote:
>>> Developers can handle ASCII. Developers can't handle steel blue versus
>>> cornflower blue.
>>>
>>> But seriously, graphics collaboratively authored by developers should,
>>> ideally, be editable via a text file. Otherwise they won't be maintained.
>> I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if people don't have the
>> motivation to open a program such as dia[1] (which is opensource and
>> available for mac/linux/windows) and edit a diagram there I'm not exactly
>> sure they'll have a motivation to open a text file either...
>>
>> Lazy (or unmotivated) people will be lazy (or unmotivated) no matter what u
>> provide them...
>
> I don't think it's about being lazy or unmotivated, but a different way of
> looking at something. I mean personally I'm far more comfortable editing a
> text file in my editor than messing with drawing blocks or lines between them.
> That's part of why I normally do all my presentations in Beamer/LaTeX. I
> normally feel quite lost when I have to deal with a graphic editing or WYIWG
> kinda tool for making anything. (and I know that I always pick the wrong color)
>
> What I think Dolph is bringing up here is something that's come up before in
> this thread, which is the easy to iterate, edit, and review story. Which might
> be something that we lose by switching to storing a graphics format in the
> repos even if there are good open source tools available for interacting with
> them. It's about introducing a new workflow to use, not the availability of
> tooling.
>

Ah, fair enough, just different workflow styles then (in some/most? 
cases). Makes sense.

> -Matt Treinish
>
>>> On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Devananda van der Veen
>>> <devananda.vdv at gmail.com<mailto:devananda.vdv at gmail.com>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>     Woops. I missed most of this thread in my last reply.
>>>
>>>     I'm all for using open standard formats and versioning them.
>>>     However. Not being a graphical artist myself, I have found the
>>>     learning curve on some of those tools daunting, eg. inkscape, which
>>>     means I'm far less likely to update a graphic in a format that
>>>     requires me to go learn that tool first. Also, it's awkward to
>>>     require a Python developer to update an SVG because that is
>>>     "documentation" affected by their commit.
>>>
>>>     If we go with a common tool/format like libre office/ODF. I suggest
>>>     we adopt some commonalities, and still keep things simple enough
>>>     that we can reasonably expect any developer to update it.
>>>
>>>     -D
>>>
>>>     On May 12, 2015 12:33 PM, "Sean Dague"<sean at dague.net
>>>     <mailto:sean at dague.net>>  wrote:
>>>
>>>         On 05/12/2015 01:12 PM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
>>>          >  On 2015-05-12 10:04:11 -0700 (-0700), Clint Byrum wrote:
>>>          >>  It's a nice up side. However, as others have pointed out,
>>>         it's only
>>>          >>  capable of displaying the most basic pieces of the architecture.
>>>          >>
>>>          >>  For higher level views with more components, I don't think
>>>         ASCII art
>>>          >>  can provide enough bandwidth to help as much as a vector
>>>         diagram.
>>>          >
>>>          >  Of course, simply a reminder that just because you have one
>>>         or two
>>>          >  complex diagram callouts in a document doesn't mean it's
>>>         necessary
>>>          >  to also go back and replace your simpler ASCII art diagrams with
>>>          >  unintelligible (without rendering) SVG or Postscript or whatever.
>>>          >  Doing so pointlessly alienates at least some fraction of readers.
>>>
>>>         Sure, it's all about trade offs.
>>>
>>>         But I believe that statement implicitly assumes that ascii art
>>>         diagrams
>>>         do not alienate some fraction of readers. And I think that's a bad
>>>         assumption.
>>>
>>>         If we all feel alienated every time anyone does anything that's not
>>>         exactly the way we would have done it, it's time to give up and
>>>         pack it
>>>         in. :) This thread specifically mentioned source based image formats
>>>         that were internationally adopted open standards (w3c SVG, ISO
>>>         ODG) that
>>>         have free software editors that exist in Windows, Mac, and Linux
>>>         (Inkscape and Open/LibreOffice).
>>>
>>>                  -Sean
>>>
>>>         --
>>>         Sean Dague
>>>         http://dague.net
>>>
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