Open Stack

On Wed, May 13, 2015 at 02:36:48PM -0700, Joshua Harlow wrote:
> Dolph Mathews wrote:
> >Developers can handle ASCII. Developers can't handle steel blue versus
> >cornflower blue.
> >
> >But seriously, graphics collaboratively authored by developers should,
> >ideally, be editable via a text file. Otherwise they won't be maintained.
> 
> I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say that if people don't have the
> motivation to open a program such as dia[1] (which is opensource and
> available for mac/linux/windows) and edit a diagram there I'm not exactly
> sure they'll have a motivation to open a text file either...
> 
> Lazy (or unmotivated) people will be lazy (or unmotivated) no matter what u
> provide them...

I don't think it's about being lazy or unmotivated, but a different way of
looking at something. I mean personally I'm far more comfortable editing a
text file in my editor than messing with drawing blocks or lines between them.
That's part of why I normally do all my presentations in Beamer/LaTeX. I
normally feel quite lost when I have to deal with a graphic editing or WYIWG
kinda tool for making anything. (and I know that I always pick the wrong color)

What I think Dolph is bringing up here is something that's come up before in
this thread, which is the easy to iterate, edit, and review story. Which might
be something that we lose by switching to storing a graphics format in the
repos even if there are good open source tools available for interacting with
them. It's about introducing a new workflow to use, not the availability of
tooling.

-Matt Treinish

> 
> >
> >On Tue, May 12, 2015 at 8:31 PM, Devananda van der Veen
> ><devananda.vdv at gmail.com <mailto:devananda.vdv at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> >    Woops. I missed most of this thread in my last reply.
> >
> >    I'm all for using open standard formats and versioning them.
> >    However. Not being a graphical artist myself, I have found the
> >    learning curve on some of those tools daunting, eg. inkscape, which
> >    means I'm far less likely to update a graphic in a format that
> >    requires me to go learn that tool first. Also, it's awkward to
> >    require a Python developer to update an SVG because that is
> >    "documentation" affected by their commit.
> >
> >    If we go with a common tool/format like libre office/ODF. I suggest
> >    we adopt some commonalities, and still keep things simple enough
> >    that we can reasonably expect any developer to update it.
> >
> >    -D
> >
> >    On May 12, 2015 12:33 PM, "Sean Dague" <sean at dague.net
> >    <mailto:sean at dague.net>> wrote:
> >
> >        On 05/12/2015 01:12 PM, Jeremy Stanley wrote:
> >         > On 2015-05-12 10:04:11 -0700 (-0700), Clint Byrum wrote:
> >         >> It's a nice up side. However, as others have pointed out,
> >        it's only
> >         >> capable of displaying the most basic pieces of the architecture.
> >         >>
> >         >> For higher level views with more components, I don't think
> >        ASCII art
> >         >> can provide enough bandwidth to help as much as a vector
> >        diagram.
> >         >
> >         > Of course, simply a reminder that just because you have one
> >        or two
> >         > complex diagram callouts in a document doesn't mean it's
> >        necessary
> >         > to also go back and replace your simpler ASCII art diagrams with
> >         > unintelligible (without rendering) SVG or Postscript or whatever.
> >         > Doing so pointlessly alienates at least some fraction of readers.
> >
> >        Sure, it's all about trade offs.
> >
> >        But I believe that statement implicitly assumes that ascii art
> >        diagrams
> >        do not alienate some fraction of readers. And I think that's a bad
> >        assumption.
> >
> >        If we all feel alienated every time anyone does anything that's not
> >        exactly the way we would have done it, it's time to give up and
> >        pack it
> >        in. :) This thread specifically mentioned source based image formats
> >        that were internationally adopted open standards (w3c SVG, ISO
> >        ODG) that
> >        have free software editors that exist in Windows, Mac, and Linux
> >        (Inkscape and Open/LibreOffice).
> >
> >                 -Sean
> >
> >        --
> >        Sean Dague
> >        http://dague.net
> >
> >        __________________________________________________________________________
> >        OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> >        Unsubscribe:
> >        OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> >        <http://OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe>
> >        http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> >
> >
> >    __________________________________________________________________________
> >    OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> >    Unsubscribe:
> >    OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> >    <http://OpenStack-dev-request@lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe>
> >    http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> >
> >
> >__________________________________________________________________________
> >OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> >Unsubscribe: OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> >http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
> 
> __________________________________________________________________________
> OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
> Unsubscribe: OpenStack-dev-request at lists.openstack.org?subject:unsubscribe
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
-------------- next part --------------
A non-text attachment was scrubbed...
Name: not available
Type: application/pgp-signature
Size: 819 bytes
Desc: not available
URL: <http://lists.openstack.org/pipermail/openstack-dev/attachments/20150513/818dc433/attachment.pgp>