Open Stack

Excerpts from Nikola Đipanov's message of 2015-02-11 05:26:47 -0800:
> On 02/11/2015 02:13 PM, Sean Dague wrote:
> > 
> > If core team members start dropping off external IRC where they are
> > communicating across corporate boundaries, then the local tribal effects
> > start taking over. You get people start talking about the upstream as
> > "them". The moment we get into us vs. them, we've got a problem.
> > Especially when the upstream project is "them".
> > 
> 
> A lot of assumptions being presented as fact here.
> 
> I believe the technical term for the above is 'slippery slope fallacy'.
> 

I don't see that fallacy, though it could descend into that if people
keep pushing in that direction. Where I think Sean did a nice job
stopping short of the slippery slope is that he only identified the step
that is happening _now_, not the next step.

I tend to agree that right now, if core team members are not talking
on IRC to other core members in the open, whether inside or outside
corporate boundaries, then we do see an us vs. them mentality happen.
It's not "I think thats the next step". I have personally seen that
happening and will work hard to stop it. I think Sean has probably seen
his share of it too,  as that is what he described in detail without
publicly shaming anyone or any company (well done Sean).

> We can and _must_ do much better than this on this mailing list! Let's
> drag the discussion level back up!

I'm certain we can always improve, and I appreciate you taking the time
to have a Gandalf moment to stop the Balrog of fallacy from  entering
this thread. We seriously can't let the discussion slip down that
slope.. oh wait.

That said, I do want us to talk about uncomfortable things when
necessary. I think this thread is not something where it will be entirely
productive to stay 100% positive throughout. We might just have to use
some negative language along side our positive suggestions to make sure
people have an efficient way to measure their own behavior.