Open Stack

Wanghua,

I see. The circular dependency you described does sound like a formidable challenge. Having multiple docker daemons violates the principle of least surprise. I worry that when it comes time to perform troubleshooting, an engineer would be surprised to find multiple dockers running at the same time within the same compute instance.

Perhaps there is a way to generate the BIP and MTU before the docker daemon is started, then use those while starting docker, and start both flannel and etcd containers so all containers on the instance can share a single docker daemon? Would that work at all? I guess I’d need a better understanding of exactly how the BIP and MTU are generated before judging if this is a good idea.

Adrian

On Dec 16, 2015, at 11:40 PM, 王华 <wanghua.humble at gmail.com<mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com>> wrote:

Adrian,

When the docker daemon starts, it needs to know the bip and mtu which are generated by flannel. So flannel and etcd should start before docker daemon, but if flannel and etcd run in the same daemon, it introduces a circle. We need another docker daemon which is dedicated to flannel and etcd.

Regards
wanghua

On Mon, Dec 14, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake at cisco.com<mailto:stdake at cisco.com>> wrote:
Adrian,

Its a real shame Atomic can't execute its mission -  serve as a container operating system.  If you need some guidance on image building find experienced developers on #kolla – we have extensive experience in producing containers for various runtime environments focused around OpenStack.

Regards
-steve


From: Adrian Otto <adrian.otto at rackspace.com<mailto:adrian.otto at rackspace.com>>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Date: Monday, December 7, 2015 at 1:16 PM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]storage for docker-bootstrap

Until I see evidence to the contrary, I think adding some bootstrap complexity to simplify the process of bay node image management and customization is worth it. Think about where most users will focus customization efforts. My guess is that it will be within these docker images. We should ask our team to keep things as simple as possible while working to containerize components where that makes sense. That may take some creativity and a few iterations to achieve.

We can pivot on this later if we try it and hate it.

Thanks,

Adrian

On Dec 7, 2015, at 1:57 AM, Kai Qiang Wu <wkqwu at cn.ibm.com<mailto:wkqwu at cn.ibm.com>> wrote:


HI Hua,

From my point of view, not everything needed to be put in container. Let's make the initial start (be simple)to work and then discussed other options if needed in IRC or weekly meeting.


Thanks

Best Wishes,
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kai Qiang Wu (吴开强 Kennan）
IBM China System and Technology Lab, Beijing

E-mail: wkqwu at cn.ibm.com<mailto:wkqwu at cn.ibm.com>
Tel: 86-10-82451647
Address: Building 28(Ring Building), ZhongGuanCun Software Park,
No.8 Dong Bei Wang West Road, Haidian District Beijing P.R.China 100193
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Follow your heart. You are miracle!

<graycol.gif>王华 ---07/12/2015 10:10:38 am---Hi all, If we want to run etcd and flannel in container, we will introduce

From: 王华 <wanghua.humble at gmail.com<mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com>>
To: Egor Guz <EGuz at walmartlabs.com<mailto:EGuz at walmartlabs.com>>
Cc: "openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>
Date: 07/12/2015 10:10 am
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]storage for docker-bootstrap

________________________________



Hi all,

If we want to run etcd and flannel in container, we will introduce docker-bootstrap which makes setup become more complex as Egor pointed out. Should we pay for the price?

On Sat, Nov 28, 2015 at 8:45 AM, Egor Guz <EGuz at walmartlabs.com<mailto:EGuz at walmartlabs.com>> wrote:

Wanghua,

I don’t think moving flannel to the container is good idea. This is setup great for dev environment, but become too complex from operator point of view (you add extra Docker daemon and need extra Cinder volume for this daemon, also
keep in mind it makes sense to keep etcd data folder at Cinder storage as well because etcd is database). flannel has just there files without extra dependencies and it’s much easy to download it during cloud-init ;)

I agree that we have pain with building Fedora Atomic images, but instead of simplify this process we should switch to another more “friendly” images (e.g. Fedora/CentOS/Ubuntu) which we can easy build with disk builder.
Also we can fix CoreOS template (I believe people more asked about it instead of Atomic), but we may face similar to Atomic issues when we will try to integrate not CoreOS products (e.g. Calico or Weave)

—
Egor

From: 王华 <wanghua.humble at gmail.com<mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com><mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com<mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com>>>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
Date: Thursday, November 26, 2015 at 00:15
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]storage for docker-bootstrap

Hi Hongbin,

The docker in master node stores data in /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--data and metadata in /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--meta. /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--data and /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--meta are logic volumes. The docker in minion node store data in the cinder volume, but /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--meta and /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--meta are not used. If we want to leverage Cinder volume for docker in master, should we drop /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--meta and /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--meta? I think it is not necessary to allocate a Cinder volume. It is enough to allocate two logic volumes for docker, because only etcd, flannel, k8s run in the docker daemon which need not a large amount of storage.

Best regards,
Wanghua

On Thu, Nov 26, 2015 at 12:40 AM, Hongbin Lu <hongbin.lu at huawei.com<mailto:hongbin.lu at huawei.com><mailto:hongbin.lu at huawei.com<mailto:hongbin.lu at huawei.com>>> wrote:
Here is a bit more context.

Currently, at k8s and swarm bay, some required binaries (i.e. etcd and flannel) are built into image and run at host. We are exploring the possibility to containerize some of these system components. The rationales are (i) it is infeasible to build custom packages into an atomic image and (ii) it is infeasible to upgrade individual component. For example, if there is a bug in current version of flannel and we know the bug was fixed in the next version, we need to upgrade flannel by building a new image, which is a tedious process.

To containerize flannel, we need a second docker daemon, called docker-bootstrap [1]. In this setup, pods are running on the main docker daemon, and flannel and etcd are running on the second docker daemon. The reason is that flannel needs to manage the network of the main docker daemon, so it needs to run on a separated daemon.

Daneyon, I think it requires separated storage because it needs to run a separated docker daemon (unless there is a way to make two docker daemons share the same storage).

Wanghua, is it possible to leverage Cinder volume for that. Leveraging external storage is always preferred [2].

[1] http://kubernetes.io/v1.1/docs/getting-started-guides/docker-multinode.html#bootstrap-docker
[2] http://www.projectatomic.io/docs/docker-storage-recommendation/

Best regards,
Hongbin

From: Daneyon Hansen (danehans) [mailto:danehans at cisco.com<mailto:danehans at cisco.com><mailto:danehans at cisco.com<mailto:danehans at cisco.com>>]
Sent: November-25-15 11:10 AM
To: OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)
Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] [magnum]storage for docker-bootstrap



From: 王华 <wanghua.humble at gmail.com<mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com><mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com<mailto:wanghua.humble at gmail.com>>>
Reply-To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
Date: Wednesday, November 25, 2015 at 5:00 AM
To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)" <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org><mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>>>
Subject: [openstack-dev] [magnum]storage for docker-bootstrap

Hi all,

I am working on containerizing etcd and flannel. But I met a problem. As described in [1], we need a docker-bootstrap. Docker and docker-bootstrap can not use the same storage, so we need some disk space for it.

I reviewed [1] and I do not see where the bootstrap docker instance requires separate storage.

The docker in master node stores data in /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--data and metadata in /dev/mapper/atomicos-docker--meta. The disk space left is too same for docker-bootstrap. Even if the root_gb of the instance flavor is 20G, only 8G can be used in our image. I want to make it bigger. One way is we can add the disk space left in the vda as vda3 into atomicos vg after the instance starts and we allocate two logic volumes for docker-bootstrap. Another way is when we create the image, we allocate two logic volumes for docker-bootstrap. The second way has a advantage. It doesn't have to make filesystem when the instance is created which is time consuming.

What is your opinion?

Best Regards
Wanghua

[1] http://kubernetes.io/v1.1/docs/getting-started-guides/docker-multinode/master.html

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