[openstack-dev] Incubation Request: Murano

Thomas Spatzier thomas.spatzier at de.ibm.com
Wed Mar 5 09:16:41 UTC 2014

Georgy Okrokvertskhov <gokrokvertskhov at mirantis.com> wrote on 05/03/2014

> From: Georgy Okrokvertskhov <gokrokvertskhov at mirantis.com>
> To: "OpenStack Development Mailing List (not for usage questions)"
> <openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org>
> Date: 05/03/2014 00:34
> Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Incubation Request: Murano
> Hi Thomas, Zane,
> Thank you for bringing TOSCA to the discussion. I think this is
> important topic as it will help to find better alignment or even
> future merge of Murano DSL and Heat templates. Murano DSL uses YAML
> representation too, so we can easily merge use constructions from
> Heat and probably any other YAML based TOSCA formats.
> I will be glad to join TOSCA TC. Is there any formal process for that?

The first part is that your company must be a member of OASIS. If that is
the case, I think you can simply go to the TC page [1] and click a button
to join the TC. If your company is not yet a member, you could get in touch
with the TC chairs Paul Lipton and Simon Moser and ask for the best next
steps. We recently had people from GigaSpaces join the TC, and since they
are also doing very TOSCA aligned implementation in Cloudify, their input
will probably help a lot to advance TOSCA.

> I also would like to use this opportunity and start conversation
> with Heat team about Heat roadmap and feature set. As Thomas
> mentioned in his previous e-mail TOSCA topology story is quite
> covered by HOT. At the same time there are entities like Plans which
> are covered by Murano. We had discussion about bringing workflows to
> Heat engine before HK summit and it looks like that Heat team has no
> plans to bring workflows into Heat. That is actually why we
> mentioned Orchestration program as a potential place for Murano DSL
> as Heat+Murano together will cover everything which is defined by TOSCA.

I remember the discussions about whether to bring workflows into Heat or
not. My personal opinion is that workflows are probably out of the scope of
Heat (i.e. everything but the derived orchestration flows the Heat engine
implements). So there could well be a layer on-top of Heat that lets Heat
deal with all topology-related declarative business and adds workflow-based
orchestration around it. TOSCA could be a way to describe the respective
overarching models and then hand the different processing tasks to the
right engine to deal with it.

> I think TOSCA initiative can be a great place to collaborate. I
> think it will be possible then to use Simplified TOSCA format for
> Application descriptions as TOSCA is intended to provide such
> Is there a team who are driving TOSCA implementation in OpenStack
> community? I feel that such team is necessary.

We started to implement a TOSCA YAML to HOT converter and our team member
Sahdev (IRC spzala) has recently submitted code for a new stackforge
project [2]. This is very initial, but could be a point to collaborate.

[1] https://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=tosca
[2] https://github.com/stackforge/heat-translator


> Thanks
> Georgy

> On Tue, Mar 4, 2014 at 2:36 PM, Thomas Spatzier
<thomas.spatzier at de.ibm.com
> > wrote:
> Excerpt from Zane Bitter's message on 04/03/2014 23:16:21:
> > From: Zane Bitter <zbitter at redhat.com>
> > To: openstack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> > Date: 04/03/2014 23:20
> > Subject: Re: [openstack-dev] Incubation Request: Murano
> >
> > On 04/03/14 00:04, Georgy Okrokvertskhov wrote:
> > >
> > It so happens that the OASIS's TOSCA technical committee are working as
> > we speak on a "TOSCA Simple Profile" that will hopefully make things
> > easier to use and includes a YAML representation (the latter is great
> > IMHO, but the key to being able to do it is the former). Work is still
> > at a relatively early stage and in my experience they are very much
> > to input from implementers.

> Nice, I was probably also writing a mail with this information at about
> same time :-)
> And yes, we are very much interested in feedback from implementers and
> to suggestions. If we can find gaps and fill them with good proposals,
> is the right time.
> >
> > I would strongly encourage you to get involved in this effort (by
> > joining the TOSCA TC), and also to architect Murano in such a way that
> > it can accept input in multiple formats (this is something we are
> > good progress toward in Heat). Ideally the DSL format for Murano+Heat
> > should be a trivial translation away from the relevant parts of the
> > representation of TOSCA Simple Profile.

> Right, having a straight-forward translation would be really desirable.
> way to get there can actually be two-fold: (1) any feedback we get from
> Murano folks on the TOSCA simple profile and YAML can help us to make
> capable of addressing the right use cases, and (2) on the other hand make
> sure the implementation goes in a direction that is in line with what
> YAML will look like.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Zane.
> >
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> >
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> --
> Georgy Okrokvertskhov
> Architect,
> OpenStack Platform Products,
> Mirantis
> http://www.mirantis.com
> Tel. +1 650 963 9828
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