Open Stack

Susanne--

I think you are conflating the difference between "OpenStack incubation"
and "Neutron incubator." These are two very different matters and should be
treated separately. So, addressing each one individually:

*"OpenStack Incubation"*
I think this has been the end-goal of Octavia all along and continues to be
the end-goal. Under this scenario, Octavia is its own stand-alone project
with its own PTL and core developer team, its own governance, and should
eventually become part of the integrated OpenStack release. No project ever
starts out as "OpenStack incubated."

*"Neutron Incubator"*
This has only become a serious discussion in the last few weeks and has yet
to land, so there are many assumptions about this which don't pan out
(either because of purposeful design and governance decisions, or because
of how this project actually ends up being implemented from a practical
standpoint). But given the inherent limitations about making statements
with so many unknowns, the following seem fairly clear from what has been
shared so far:

   - Neutron incubator is the on-ramp for projects which should eventually
   become a part of Neutron itself.
   - Projects which enter the Neutron incubator on-ramp should be fairly
   close to maturity in their final form. I think the intent here is for them
   to live in incubator for 1 or 2 cycles before either being merged into
   Neutron core, or being ejected (as abandoned, or as a separate project).
   - Neutron incubator projects effectively do not have their own PTL and
   core developer team, and do not have their own governance.

In addition we know the following about Neutron LBaaS and Octavia:

   - It's already (informally?) agreed that the ultimate long-term place
   for a LBaaS solution is probably to be spun out into its own project, which
   might appropriately live under a yet-to-be-defined master "Networking"
   project. (This would make Neutron, LBaaS, VPNaaS, FWaaS, etc. effective
   "peer" projects under the Networking umbrella.)  Since this "Networking"
   umbrella project has even less defined about it than Neutron incubator,
   it's impossible to know whether being a part of Neutron incubator would be
   of any benefit to Octavia (or, conversely, to Neutron incubator) at all as
   an on-ramp to becoming part of "Networking." Presumably, Octavia *might* fit
   well under the "Networking" umbrella-- but, again, with nothing defined
   there it's impossible to draw any reasonable conclusions at this time.
   - When the LBaaS component spins out of Neutron, it will more than
   likely not be Octavia.  Octavia is *intentionally* less friendly to 3rd
   party load balancer vendors both because it's envisioned that Octavia would
   just be another implementation which lives along-side said 3rd party vendor
   products (plugging into a higher level LBaaS layer via a driver), and
   because we don't want to have to compromise certain design features of
   Octavia to meet the lowest common denominator 3rd party vendor product.
   (3rd party vendors are welcome, but we will not make design compromises to
   meet the needs of a proprietary product-- compatibility with available
   open-source products and standards trumps this.)
   - The end-game for the above point is: In the future I see "Openstack
   LBaaS" (or whatever the project calls itself) being a separate but
   complimentary project to Octavia.
   - While its true that we would like Octavia to become the reference
   implementation for Neutron LBaaS, we are nowhere near being able to deliver
   on that. Attempting to become a part of Neutron LBaaS right now is likely
   just to create frustration (and very little merged code) for both the
   Octavia and Neutron teams.



So given that the only code in Octavia right now are a few database
migrations, we are very, very far away from being ready for either
OpenStack incubation or the Neutron incubator project. I don't think it's
very useful to be spending time right now worrying about either of these
outcomes:  We should be working on Octavia!

Please also understand:  I realize that probably the reason you're asking
this right now is because you have a mandate within your organization to
use only "official" OpenStack branded components, and if Octavia doesn't
fall within that category, you won't be able to use it.  Of course everyone
working on this project wants to make that happen too, so we're doing
everything we can to make sure we don't jeopardize that possibility. And
there are enough voices in this project that want that to happen, so I
think if we strayed from the path to get there, there would be sufficient
clangor over this that it would be hard to miss. But I don't think there's
anyone at all at this time that can honestly give you a promise that
Octavia definitely will be incubated and will definitely end up in the
integrated OpenStack release.

If you want to increase the chances of that happening, please help push the
project forward!

Thanks,
Stephen



On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Susanne Balle <sleipnir012 at gmail.com>
wrote:

>  I would like to discuss the pros and cons of putting Octavia into the
> Neutron LBaaS incubator project right away. If it is going to be the
> reference implementation for LBaaS v 2 then I believe Octavia belong in
> Neutron LBaaS v2 incubator.
>
> The Pros:
> * Octavia is in Openstack incubation right away along with the lbaas v2
> code. We do not have to apply for incubation later on.
> * As incubation project we have our own core and should be able ot commit
> our code
> * We are starting out as an OpenStack incubated project
>
> The Cons:
> * Not sure of the velocity of the project
> * Incubation not well defined.
>
> If Octavia starts as a standalone stackforge project we are assuming that
> it would be looked favorable on when time is to move it into incubated
> status.
>
> Susanne
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenStack-dev mailing list
> OpenStack-dev at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-dev
>
>


-- 
Stephen Balukoff
Blue Box Group, LLC
(800)613-4305 x807
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