<div dir="ltr">Susanne--<div><br></div><div>I think you are conflating the difference between "OpenStack incubation" and "Neutron incubator." These are two very different matters and should be treated separately. So, addressing each one individually:</div>
<div><br></div><div><b>"OpenStack Incubation"</b></div><div>I think this has been the end-goal of Octavia all along and continues to be the end-goal. Under this scenario, Octavia is its own stand-alone project with its own PTL and core developer team, its own governance, and should eventually become part of the integrated OpenStack release. No project ever starts out as "OpenStack incubated."</div>
<div><br></div><div><b>"Neutron Incubator"</b></div><div>This has only become a serious discussion in the last few weeks and has yet to land, so there are many assumptions about this which don't pan out (either because of purposeful design and governance decisions, or because of how this project actually ends up being implemented from a practical standpoint). But given the inherent limitations about making statements with so many unknowns, the following seem fairly clear from what has been shared so far:</div>
<div><ul><li>Neutron incubator is the on-ramp for projects which should eventually become a part of Neutron itself.</li><li>Projects which enter the Neutron incubator on-ramp should be fairly close to maturity in their final form. I think the intent here is for them to live in incubator for 1 or 2 cycles before either being merged into Neutron core, or being ejected (as abandoned, or as a separate project).</li>
<li>Neutron incubator projects effectively do not have their own PTL and core developer team, and do not have their own governance.</li></ul><div>In addition we know the following about Neutron LBaaS and Octavia:</div><div>
<ul><li>It's already (informally?) agreed that the ultimate long-term place for a LBaaS solution is probably to be spun out into its own project, which might appropriately live under a yet-to-be-defined master "Networking" project. (This would make Neutron, LBaaS, VPNaaS, FWaaS, etc. effective "peer" projects under the Networking umbrella.) Since this "Networking" umbrella project has even less defined about it than Neutron incubator, it's impossible to know whether being a part of Neutron incubator would be of any benefit to Octavia (or, conversely, to Neutron incubator) at all as an on-ramp to becoming part of "Networking." Presumably, Octavia <i>might</i> fit well under the "Networking" umbrella-- but, again, with nothing defined there it's impossible to draw any reasonable conclusions at this time.</li>
<li>When the LBaaS component spins out of Neutron, it will more than likely not be Octavia. Octavia is <i>intentionally</i> less friendly to 3rd party load balancer vendors both because it's envisioned that Octavia would just be another implementation which lives along-side said 3rd party vendor products (plugging into a higher level LBaaS layer via a driver), and because we don't want to have to compromise certain design features of Octavia to meet the lowest common denominator 3rd party vendor product. (3rd party vendors are welcome, but we will not make design compromises to meet the needs of a proprietary product-- compatibility with available open-source products and standards trumps this.)</li>
<li>The end-game for the above point is: In the future I see "Openstack LBaaS" (or whatever the project calls itself) being a separate but complimentary project to Octavia.</li><li>While its true that we would like Octavia to become the reference implementation for Neutron LBaaS, we are nowhere near being able to deliver on that. Attempting to become a part of Neutron LBaaS right now is likely just to create frustration (and very little merged code) for both the Octavia and Neutron teams.</li>
</ul></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div>So given that the only code in Octavia right now are a few database migrations, we are very, very far away from being ready for either OpenStack incubation or the Neutron incubator project. I don't think it's very useful to be spending time right now worrying about either of these outcomes: We should be working on Octavia!</div>
<div><br></div><div>Please also understand: I realize that probably the reason you're asking this right now is because you have a mandate within your organization to use only "official" OpenStack branded components, and if Octavia doesn't fall within that category, you won't be able to use it. Of course everyone working on this project wants to make that happen too, so we're doing everything we can to make sure we don't jeopardize that possibility. And there are enough voices in this project that want that to happen, so I think if we strayed from the path to get there, there would be sufficient clangor over this that it would be hard to miss. But I don't think there's anyone at all at this time that can honestly give you a promise that Octavia definitely will be incubated and will definitely end up in the integrated OpenStack release.</div>
<div><br></div><div>If you want to increase the chances of that happening, please help push the project forward!</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Stephen</div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br>
<div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Aug 28, 2014 at 2:57 PM, Susanne Balle <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:sleipnir012@gmail.com" target="_blank">sleipnir012@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px"> I would like to discuss the pros and cons of putting Octavia into the Neutron LBaaS incubator project right away. If it is going to be the reference implementation for LBaaS v 2 then I believe Octavia belong in Neutron LBaaS v2 incubator. </div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">The Pros:</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* Octavia is in Openstack incubation right away along with the lbaas v2 code. We do not have to apply for incubation later on. </div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* As incubation project we have our own core and should be able ot commit our code</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">* We are starting out as an OpenStack incubated project</div>
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">The Cons:</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
* Not sure of the velocity of the project</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">* Incubation not well defined.</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
<br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">If Octavia starts as a standalone stackforge project we are assuming that it would be looked favorable on when time is to move it into incubated status.</div>
<span class="HOEnZb"><font color="#888888">
<div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px"><br></div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">Susanne</div><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:13.333333969116211px;padding-left:0px">
<br></div><div><br></div></font></span></div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><span></span>Stephen Balukoff
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