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Apologies for forking the thread.
I think this is probably the last post with some content which might be
useful for a discussion which does not involve fashion police.

On another note, I've seen my name is in the list of the required
attendees. To be fair and honest I'm not any more required than any other
member of the neutron core team.

I've also added some comments inline.

On 15 November 2013 17:16, Anita Kuno <anteaya at anteaya.info> wrote:

> On 11/15/2013 11:01 AM, Kyle Mestery (kmestery) wrote:
>
>> On Nov 15, 2013, at 9:36 AM, Russell Bryant <rbryant at redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On 11/13/2013 11:10 AM, Anita Kuno wrote:
>>>
>>>> Neutron Tempest code sprint
>>>>
>>>> In the second week of January in Montreal, Quebec, Canadathere will be a
>>>> Neutron Tempest code sprint to improve the status of Neutron tests in
>>>> Tempest and to add new tests.
>>>>
>>> First off, I think anything regarding putting more effort into this is
>>> great.  However, I *beg* the Neutron team not to wait until this week to
>>> make significant progress.
>>>
>> Well I have an item on the Neutron team meeting for next week:
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Network/Meetings#Neutron_
> Tempest_.28anteaya.29
> I would enjoy having your presence there and hope you join in on the
> discussion, Russell.


This is completely true, and I expect that the ideal goal would be that by
the day that the sprint comes, parallel testing with tenant isolation and
coverage gaps are covered.
Regarding specifically the sprint, I reckon it is an event with lot of
potential for building a community and solving actual problems, but allow
me to say that, from my little experience, developer productivity often
don't add up. By this I mean that if you put 10 developers in a room, and
each of them has a productivity of one, the outcome is likely to be less
than 10.

I am sure that Neutron devs will work with Tempest devs, with the help of
Nova devs (we need that too as one of main pain points is the neutronv2
implementation of nova's network api) to reach to a stage where we are
comfortable with gate stability and coverage by the beginning of this
Montreal sprint.


>
>
>>> To be clear, IMO, this is already painfully late.  It's one of the
>>> largest items blocking deprecation of nova-network and moving forward
>>> with Neutron.  This spring is just a couple weeks before icehouse-2.
>>> Come i2, mid-cycle, we're going to have make a call on whether or not
>>> nova-network deprecation seems likely.  If not, we really can't wait
>>> around and I will probably propose un-freezing nova-network.
>>>
>>
As also stated during the design summit, this goes beyond parity,
stability, and migration. It is a question that should probably be asked to
users rather than developers, but is probably off-topic in this thread.


>  Yes, the surprising thing for me is this is the feeling within the rest
> of the OpenStack community and seems to be not acknowledged in anyway so
> far in my journeys within Neutron. Thank you for stating this so clearly,
> Russell. I hope people are able to hear you when you say it.
>

I personally do not feel this way; even if this is just my personal opinion.
We did a bad job in fixing test coverage during Havana; the PTL has
acknowledged it, and is taking the necessary steps to put things right. I
think there has been a good response from the community, in terms of people
willing to volunteer, and in terms of support for the plan of requiring
verifiability for all plugins.


>
> It was actually for this reason that I decided to do what I am doing, to
> my best ability to do it. Others are prepared to deprecate Neutron now and
> I needed to demonstrate to myself that I did everything I could to address
> the situation before I voiced my opinion.



>
> So we shall see what comes of it.
>
>
>>>  The event will be vendor neutral. We will talk to each other based on
>>>> who we are and our interests, not based on who signs our paycheque. If
>>>> folks arrive with logoed shirts (I don't know which logos are work logos
>>>> and which aren't, so I will request no logos please) I will issue you a
>>>> white T-shirt to wear. We need to work collaboratively to effectlvely
>>>> make progress during the code sprint.
>>>>
>>> I'm all for promoting a culture of individuals and vendor neutrality.
>>> However, I think this requirement is bizarre and unnecessary.  From a
>>> practical standpoint, many people (myself included) get a ton of shirts
>>> at conferences, so a lot of my clothes have tech company logos.  If you
>>> actually get people to show up to an event dedicated to working on
>>> testing, who cares what shirt they have on?
>>>
>> Actually symbols are very important and carry subtle messages that the
> unconcious part of the brain interprets but may not push to conciousness.
> http://uanews.org/story/ua-study-your-brain-sees-things-you-don-t
>
> Logos are powerful for a reason, and when I talk to you, Russell, I
> appreciate being able to look at you and hear you without a logo creating
> interference with my communication with you.
>
>
>>> "I will issue you a white T-shirt"?!  Are you serious?
>>>
>> Yes.
>
>
>>>  Someone at the summit choose not to wear footwear at the event. If you
>>>> want to come to the code sprint please plan on wearing appropriate
>>>> footwear in the public areas at the code sprint. For two reasons:
>>>> 1. It will be cold.
>>>> 2. The event is meant to facilitate mutual respect between us to
>>>> increase communication, both at the event and afterwards. I feel wearing
>>>> appropriate footwear supports this goal.
>>>>
>>> It's Winter in Canada... I'd be quite surprised if someone went without
>>> shoes.
>>>
>> I was surprised someone showed up in public areas at the summit without
> them.
>
>
>>> I love the idea, but this stuff is just a big turn-off.
>>>
>> That is a shame. It would be wonderful if you could attend. But you are
> the only one who can decide and I respect your opinion.
>
>  Huge +1 from me as well. The sprint and Tempest work is great, the
>> clothing requirements are going to make people not take this seriously.
>> I feel these were not necessary.
>>
> I wish that were so. I have witnessed nothing in my time in the Neutron
> design summit sessions or in the IRC channel to indicate they aren't.
>
> Funny this is such a big pain point.
>
> Thanks for weighing in, I do hope to keep the conversation going.
>
> Thanks,
> Anita.
>
>
Regards,
Salvatore

PS: Can I wear my favourite football club shirt?


>
>>
>>
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