Open Stack

Hi John,

To follow up... We discussed the interlock opportunity today at our meeting.  Geoff Arnold and I will join the upcoming Nova meeting this Thursday at 21:00 UTC.  The offer for us to attend another meeting, after the cross project meeting, the week of 8/24 still stands too.  

I wanted to make introductions and start the communication as soon as possible per your suggestion.  We can discuss what your expectations are from the Product WG, we can give an update on our activities, and find out how we can best help before (and during) the Nova design summit for Mitaka.

Thanks,
Shamail 



> On Aug 10, 2015, at 6:27 PM, Barrett, Carol L <carol.l.barrett at intel.com> wrote:
> 
> John - I want to echo Shamail's Thank you. Your partnership is appreciated.
> 
> I think that we are, roughly, on track to intercept Liberty 3/Start of Mikata Design Summit planning. We are working to complete the list of user stories for our pilot, with input from Operators by the end of next week. Our plan is to review that in the cross-project team meeting the week of 8/24 (haven't asked for agenda time yet). Do you think it will make sense to review the Nova related user stories in a Nova team meeting that week too? I'm sure it would be very helpful for the gaps analysis around each user story.
> 
> I agree with Shamail about adding the product manager collaboration topic to our Mid-Cycle meeting.
> 
> On your Mission, it's a great starting place and with my Enterprise hat on, I am quite heartened to see upgrades included. I think there may also be something around robustness/reliability that would be important to Operators to include. 
> 
> On priorities, Scheduler and Upgrades are v important. I would propose adding something explicit about reducing outstanding bug count (Live migration being an important area) to help direct reviewers to those patches. I believe that the Neutron/Nova-network migration path needs a good definition, esp in light of the DefCore direction.
> 
> As we put in placed CPL (Cross Project Liasons) between the Product Working group and the other Project teams, I'm hopeful that we will better both align and integrate with the community processes and methods.
> 
> Thanks
> Carol
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shamail Tahir [mailto:itzshamail at gmail.com] 
> Sent: Friday, August 07, 2015 8:33 AM
> To: John Garbutt
> Cc: product-wg at lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [Product] Nova and the Product Working Group
> 
> Hi John,
> 
> Thank you for reaching out!  Please see my comments in-line.  We look forward to speaking with you soon.
> 
>> On Fri, Aug 7, 2015 at 7:59 AM, John Garbutt <john at johngarbutt.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> I would love to start a conversation with you all about Nova and Mitaka.
>> 
>> Probably makes sense to arrange a meeting to discuss these points, or 
>> I could join one of your meetings. I can invite other developers along 
>> that might be interested.
> [ST] We would love for yourself and the team do stop by for one of our meetings.  We should target either this coming Monday (8/17) or the Monday after the ops summit/product midcycle (8/24).  We can join one of your meetings as well but it would be great to have you join our meeting so that we can maximize the number of product WG members that can participate.
> 
>> 
>> It would be great to get this done before liberty-3, so can get to 
>> something that can inform the chosen Design Summit sessions.
> [ST] +1.  The product WG is planning to pilot a "workflow" that spans the sequence of events leading from documenting user stories from various sources all the way through engagement/collaboration with the developer community.  We plan to discuss the available user stories next week and, hopefully, determine which ones we can use to "pilot" the process.
> 
>> 
>> Starting the Conversation
>> -------------------------
>> 
>> If I was asked to pick on key deliverable for the Product Working 
>> Group, I think it would be to create a forum for Product Managers to 
>> collaborate, and discuss each others mission, goals and priorities.
>> Making it easier to understand where organisations can work together 
>> and avoid duplicate efforts. It would be great if this includes you 
>> all discussing the feedback from all the different user and operator 
>> groups.
> [ST] This is good feedback and aligns well with portions of why there was an interest to create this group to begin with.  This discussion would probably make a great agenda item for our mid-cycle (8/20-8/21 in Santa Clara, CA).
> 
>> 
>> I am much less interested in any documents or deliverables, its that 
>> cross company alignment and agreement, that will be extremely valuable 
>> to the developer community.
> [ST] The user story deliverable is the medium through which we will be expressing our interests and documenting them so that they can be shared.
> The value is definitely in alignment, cross project collaboration/tracking, and being an aggregation point for feedback, however I do believe the user story (and the associated discussions) are vital for this alignment/agreement to be realized.
> 
>> 
>> That will naturally trickle back into the developer community through 
>> the guidance you give to all the people you have working on OpenStack.
>> 
>> There is one big concern that has been raised around how the product 
>> working group and the developer community interacts. If done 
>> incorrectly, it can look like the developer community is ignoring the 
>> user requests presented to it. I want to make sure we start things off 
>> in a way that will not alienate either of the groups.
> [ST] +1
> 
>> 
>> I guess I am asking that we try and find a way for you all to engage 
>> in the current developer community processes. I know we have had great 
>> input from product managers during design summit sessions in the past, 
>> it would be great to see more of that input again. Many discussions 
>> (and nova-specs) start with a definition of the user problem that 
>> needs addressing. I am sure good input into those discussion would be 
>> welcomed.
> [ST] We might have limited bandwidth to really dig in at the moment since we are "piloting" the process through the Mitaka design summit, but we would be glad to help where we can!  The current plan is to review a set of initial user story submissions next week, identify team members to help coordinate them, share our list with the community for feedback (the prioritization process will change in the future but we opted for a lightweight weighing exercise for the pilot), perform a gap analysis to determine which areas/projects map to the user story (this is another potential area for collaboration with the development community), join developer team meetings to share user stories/context to get feedback and forge partnerships, and be available at the design summit to participate in discussions for those user stories that require further discussion.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mission and Scope
>> -----------------
>> 
>> Secondly, I just wanted to share this document we have on Nova's scope:
>> http://docs.openstack.org/developer/nova/project_scope.html
>> 
>> As a developer community, we do have quite a strong shared mission for 
>> Nova. We are working to make sure that is articulated well, and shared 
>> more widely. The key parts of that are something like this:
>> * Build a strong ecosystem by having a great API to access on demand 
>> compute resources, that works in the same way across all deployments
>> * Help keep operators current by providing a good upgrade experience
>> * Flexibility to grow because we work well for all sizes of cloud 
>> deployment
>> 
>> We are reviewing all feature proposals through the lens of this 
>> mission. We don't claim to have succeeded in this mission, we aim to 
>> work towards that mission. I do feel there are key elements of the API 
>> users experience that are missing from that above description, but we 
>> have to start somewhere.
> [ST] This is amazing John!  I like the fact that a document like this helps identify the focus areas that the team will be pursuing in the future.  I am certain there will be more feedback once the team can review the document.
> 
>> 
>> I am really interested in the product working group's feedback on our 
>> direction.
> [ST] Likewise!  Thanks again for sending this message, we look forward to the partnership between the teams.
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Release Goals
>> -------------
>> 
>> Lastly, I would love feedback on the current set of Nova priorities:
>> 
>> http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/priorities/liberty-pri
>> orities.html
>> 
>> It is likely for Mitaka that we keep a similar set of priorities, but 
>> ideally adding at least one of these efforts:
>> 
>> http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/nova-specs/priorities/liberty-pri
>> orities.html#priorities-without-a-clear-plan
>> 
>> My ask is, does this list surprise you at all?
>> Out of all these suggested items, which group would you choose?
> [ST] Will review and get back to you.
> 
>> 
>> This feedback will help with the picking of Nova Design Summit 
>> Sessions. The outcomes of those sessions help decide what can actually 
>> become a priority (a combination of reaching a certain level of 
>> consensus and having people free and willing to work on those things).
>> 
>> 
>> Anyways, I hope that sparks some good discussions. Let me know what 
>> you all think.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> John
>> 
>> Twitter/IRC: johnthetubaguy
>> 
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> 
> 
> 
> --
> Thanks,
> Shamail Tahir
> t: @ShamailXD
> tz: Eastern Time
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