Open Stack

On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 10:55 AM, Tim Bell <Tim.Bell at cern.ch> wrote:

>
>
> Specifying something as a bug needs to determine things like ‘what
> component should this be addressed in’ and describing the desired
> behaviour. Many of the comments from the survey describe the pain points,
> rather than the solutions. Upgrading is difficult, no mechanism to auto
> restart VMs on other hypervisors, monitoring frameworks, inconsistent
> options in command line tools and APIs, … equally, missing functional gaps
> do not fall well into the bug system.
>
>
>

Thanks for the examples.


>  I have received the feedback from operators when raising issues that
> they get the response ‘contributions are welcome’. Running an openstack
> cloud can be non-trivial, especially the big ones, and there is a need to
> appreciate that this effort is a significant part of the OpenStack
> community effort (along with the blogs, the documentation updates, the
> summit presentations).
>


While having a dev/operator session at the summit would be helpful, I don't
think meeting twice a year for a few hours is enough.  We don't get all our
planning done at the summit (although we do get a lot done), and I think
the same applies here.  You bring up a really great point here, we don't
have a good way for an operator to file a bug against OpenStack (
http://launchpad.net/openstack) that describes a pain point and not a
solution.

So as an operator, I want to be able to file a bug saying 'X is a problem
for me' and not know if its a nova issue or a glance issue etc or know how
to fix it.


>
>
> I personally have a different proposal to Tristan (although I like his)…
> my proposal is that each program should have a session dedicated to
> user/operator needs at the start.  Between the UC, the volunteers to look
> at the survey comments and the user group ambassadors, we should be able to
> put together a set of pain points to be considered for the next release…
> solutions are up to the design teams.
>

I like the general direction this thread is going.


>
>
> Tim
>
>
>
> *From:* Joe Gordon [mailto:joe.gordon0 at gmail.com]
> *Sent:* 16 December 2013 18:38
> *To:* Tristan Goode
> *Cc:* openstack at lists.openstack.org
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users at
> the next summit
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Tristan Goode <tristan at aptira.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to establish a feedback loop "because" we (Operators, Users,
> etc)
> need to better present our actual real world, evidence based Operator,
> User,
>
> and even other input like Sales and Marketing experiences back into the
>
> development teams. Much of this does and will come from the great work of
> the UC, the User surveys, and especially the folks that have volunteered to
> analyse the survey results. I'm hoping to build on the survey analysis and
> collaboratively and constructively focus that to present a blueprint or
> roadmap with a "whole of OpenStack" scope. We can dig deeper into the user
> survey feedback and break beyond the bounds of the limited format of the
> user survey to seed the discussion. For me, the most valuable session in
> Hong Kong was the discussion led by Tim of the user survey. It was however,
> all too short.
>
>
>
> Do you have any examples of what kind of feedback you would like to pass
> on to developers (I was unable to attend Tim's discussion of the user
> survey)?  Also just playing devils advocate here, but why not use our bug
> system to provide feedback?
>
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Sean Dague [mailto:sean at dague.net]
> > Sent: Saturday, 14 December 2013 3:02 AM
> > To: openstack at lists.openstack.org
> > Subject: Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users at the
> > next
> > summit
> >
> > So not that I don't think this is a worth while thing, because I think it
> > is. But instead
> > of jumping to the solution of a User Day, it might be useful to figure
> out
> > what's
> > attempting to be solved.
> >
> > Is it?
> >
> > 1) get Users together to share best practices among themselves? Because
> > lots of
> > people have learned things, and want to bootstrap others.
> >
> > 2) get Users and Operators together to share best practices among
> > themselves?
> > Because ...
> >
> > 3) get Vendors and Users and Operators together? Because ...
> >
> > 4) get Developers and Users and Operators together? Because ....
> >
> > I think if you start with defining the Because ... part, then the needed
> > parties, then
> > the odds of this being successful and useful to folks goes way up. It
> also
> > would give
> > people attending a reasonable expectation of what they are going to get
> > out of it.
> >
> > Because it would be a shame to set up #1, if most people thought they
> were
> > getting
> > #4 (which is basically what Lorin was proposing with his adopt a
> developer
> > idea),
> > then people being disappointed that they didn't get what they thought
> they
> > were
> > getting.
> >
> > The design summit works pretty well for the development community because
> > of
> > how narrowly it is scoped. So a critical mass in each of those rooms
> knows
> > when it's
> > getting off track and how to pull it back to something actionable at the
> > end.
> >
> >       -Sean
> >
> > On 12/13/2013 06:05 AM, Tristan Goode wrote:
> > > I guess what I'm trying to say by "Users and Operators" covers
> > > carriers and telcos. By User I mean folks that consume OpenStack
> > > resources and by Operator I mean folks that supply OpenStack
> > > resources. Maybe all can be called Users but whatever one calls it,
> > > what I mean basically is Non-Developers actually working on and with
> > > OpenStack. :)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Cheers
> > >
> > > Tristan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *From:*Kyle MacDonald [mailto:kyle.macdonald at gmail.com
> > > <mailto:kyle.macdonald at gmail.com>]
> > > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 December 2013 7:02 PM
> > > *To:* Tristan Goode
> > > *Cc:* openstack at lists.openstack.org
> > > <mailto:openstack at lists.openstack.org>
> > > *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users
> > > at the next summit
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Tristan
> > >
> > > I like this idea and agree it should be a priority. I do suggest the
> > > focus area be expanded (or a second focus day) to accommodate carriers
> > > and telcos and their operations needs (they are real operators).
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a ton of work being done by the leading telco's around NFV
> > > and SDN (many in emerging use cases) using OpenStack. I can very
> > > easily see "operations" being a killer issue and something that should
> > > be more broadly addressed. Last summit the forum for that track of
> > > discussions was by a vendor - next summit this area should be made
> > > more neutral and inclusive.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Kyle
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Dec 11, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Tristan Goode <tristan at aptira.com
> > > <mailto:tristan at aptira.com>> wrote:
> > >
> > >     G'day OpenStackLand,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     I have an idea for the next summit to put forward...
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     Like we have the various project design summit session days at the
> > >     summits, I think it'd be really useful to have an Operators and
> > >     Users day at the very start of the next summit (and hopefully all
> of
> > >     them in future if it works out). So far at the last 4 summits I've
> > >     attended, from the users and operators point of view we've had a
> rag
> > >     tag bunch of disconnected panels and 40 minute sessions that really
> > >     don't get anywhere much and don’t make it to any sort of plan or
> > >     worthwhile result. This proposed "Operators and Users" day will be
> > >     run like the design summit session days where all of us that have
> to
> > >     deal with the consequences of the software development of this
> > >     project sit in a room and work the issues. The goal is to present
> > >     real world, evidence based Operator, User, and even other input
> like
> > >     Sales and Marketing experiences back into the development teams.
> > >     Maybe we might even have our own "Operators and Users" lounge too.
> > > :-P
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     Cheers
> > >
> > >     Tristan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >     _______________________________________________
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> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
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> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sean Dague
> > http://dague.net
>
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