Open Stack

BTW, it does not solve the problem of which component to put something in but it would allow us to align the input with the project structure. It would not catch all cases (such as VM on shared storage restart in the event of failure which is apparently not in the Nova scope) but it would allow us to cover the ones which are clear.

I would propose to only cover incubated and core projects with such a session. One of my other concerns is the project sprawl which massively increases the operational effort (new daemons, interfaces to monitor, puppet configurations, upgrade orders, packaging issues, roles to define, CLIs to deploy, user education to organise, ...)

I would also propose that these user/operator points should be provided to the PTLs at least one month in advance of the summit. Armed with this input, the PTLs can factor this into the summit session planning. If there are needs for a user/operator advocate in design sessions, I think we can find candidates as we expand through the volunteers and ambassador programs.

Tim

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Allamaraju, Subbu [mailto:subbu at subbu.org]
> Sent: 16 December 2013 20:19
> To: Tim Bell
> Cc: Joe Gordon; Tristan Goode; openstack at lists.openstack.org
> Subject: Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users at the next summit
> 
> Tim,
> 
> +1 to your proposal to let each program have an operator focused session to get a sense of operability issues. OpenStack is at a point
> where operability can make it or break it, and such sessions can influence better tradeoffs between features and operability.
> 
> Subbu
> 
> On Dec 16, 2013, at 10:55 AM, Tim Bell <Tim.Bell at cern.ch> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Specifying something as a bug needs to determine things like 'what component should this be addressed in' and describing the desired
> behaviour. Many of the comments from the survey describe the pain points, rather than the solutions. Upgrading is difficult, no
> mechanism to auto restart VMs on other hypervisors, monitoring frameworks, inconsistent options in command line tools and APIs, ...
> equally, missing functional gaps do not fall well into the bug system.
> >
> > I have received the feedback from operators when raising issues that they get the response 'contributions are welcome'. Running an
> openstack cloud can be non-trivial, especially the big ones, and there is a need to appreciate that this effort is a significant part of the
> OpenStack community effort (along with the blogs, the documentation updates, the summit presentations).
> >
> > I personally have a different proposal to Tristan (although I like his)... my proposal is that each program should have a session dedicated
> to user/operator needs at the start.  Between the UC, the volunteers to look at the survey comments and the user group ambassadors, we
> should be able to put together a set of pain points to be considered for the next release... solutions are up to the design teams.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> > From: Joe Gordon [mailto:joe.gordon0 at gmail.com]
> > Sent: 16 December 2013 18:38
> > To: Tristan Goode
> > Cc: openstack at lists.openstack.org
> > Subject: Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users at
> > the next summit
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sun, Dec 15, 2013 at 10:36 PM, Tristan Goode <tristan at aptira.com> wrote:
> > I'm trying to establish a feedback loop "because" we (Operators,
> > Users, etc) need to better present our actual real world, evidence
> > based Operator, User, and even other input like Sales and Marketing
> > experiences back into the development teams. Much of this does and
> > will come from the great work of the UC, the User surveys, and
> > especially the folks that have volunteered to analyse the survey
> > results. I'm hoping to build on the survey analysis and
> > collaboratively and constructively focus that to present a blueprint
> > or roadmap with a "whole of OpenStack" scope. We can dig deeper into
> > the user survey feedback and break beyond the bounds of the limited
> > format of the user survey to seed the discussion. For me, the most
> > valuable session in Hong Kong was the discussion led by Tim of the user survey. It was however, all too short.
> >
> > Do you have any examples of what kind of feedback you would like to pass on to developers (I was unable to attend Tim's discussion of
> the user survey)?  Also just playing devils advocate here, but why not use our bug system to provide feedback?
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Sean Dague [mailto:sean at dague.net]
> > > Sent: Saturday, 14 December 2013 3:02 AM
> > > To: openstack at lists.openstack.org
> > > Subject: Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and Users
> > > at the next summit
> > >
> > > So not that I don't think this is a worth while thing, because I
> > > think it is. But instead of jumping to the solution of a User Day,
> > > it might be useful to figure out what's attempting to be solved.
> > >
> > > Is it?
> > >
> > > 1) get Users together to share best practices among themselves?
> > > Because lots of people have learned things, and want to bootstrap
> > > others.
> > >
> > > 2) get Users and Operators together to share best practices among
> > > themselves?
> > > Because ...
> > >
> > > 3) get Vendors and Users and Operators together? Because ...
> > >
> > > 4) get Developers and Users and Operators together? Because ....
> > >
> > > I think if you start with defining the Because ... part, then the
> > > needed parties, then the odds of this being successful and useful to
> > > folks goes way up. It also would give people attending a reasonable
> > > expectation of what they are going to get out of it.
> > >
> > > Because it would be a shame to set up #1, if most people thought
> > > they were getting
> > > #4 (which is basically what Lorin was proposing with his adopt a
> > > developer idea), then people being disappointed that they didn't get
> > > what they thought they were getting.
> > >
> > > The design summit works pretty well for the development community
> > > because of how narrowly it is scoped. So a critical mass in each of
> > > those rooms knows when it's getting off track and how to pull it
> > > back to something actionable at the end.
> > >
> > >       -Sean
> > >
> > > On 12/13/2013 06:05 AM, Tristan Goode wrote:
> > > > I guess what I'm trying to say by "Users and Operators" covers
> > > > carriers and telcos. By User I mean folks that consume OpenStack
> > > > resources and by Operator I mean folks that supply OpenStack
> > > > resources. Maybe all can be called Users but whatever one calls
> > > > it, what I mean basically is Non-Developers actually working on
> > > > and with OpenStack. :)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Cheers
> > > >
> > > > Tristan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > *From:*Kyle MacDonald [mailto:kyle.macdonald at gmail.com
> > > > <mailto:kyle.macdonald at gmail.com>]
> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, 12 December 2013 7:02 PM
> > > > *To:* Tristan Goode
> > > > *Cc:* openstack at lists.openstack.org
> > > > <mailto:openstack at lists.openstack.org>
> > > > *Subject:* Re: [Openstack] Bringing focus to the Operators and
> > > > Users at the next summit
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Tristan
> > > >
> > > > I like this idea and agree it should be a priority. I do suggest
> > > > the focus area be expanded (or a second focus day) to accommodate
> > > > carriers and telcos and their operations needs (they are real operators).
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > There is a ton of work being done by the leading telco's around
> > > > NFV and SDN (many in emerging use cases) using OpenStack. I can
> > > > very easily see "operations" being a killer issue and something
> > > > that should be more broadly addressed. Last summit the forum for
> > > > that track of discussions was by a vendor - next summit this area
> > > > should be made more neutral and inclusive.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Kyle
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Dec 11, 2013, at 10:55 PM, Tristan Goode <tristan at aptira.com
> > > > <mailto:tristan at aptira.com>> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >     G'day OpenStackLand,
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     I have an idea for the next summit to put forward...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     Like we have the various project design summit session days at the
> > > >     summits, I think it'd be really useful to have an Operators and
> > > >     Users day at the very start of the next summit (and hopefully all of
> > > >     them in future if it works out). So far at the last 4 summits I've
> > > >     attended, from the users and operators point of view we've had a rag
> > > >     tag bunch of disconnected panels and 40 minute sessions that really
> > > >     don't get anywhere much and don't make it to any sort of plan or
> > > >     worthwhile result. This proposed "Operators and Users" day will be
> > > >     run like the design summit session days where all of us that have to
> > > >     deal with the consequences of the software development of this
> > > >     project sit in a room and work the issues. The goal is to present
> > > >     real world, evidence based Operator, User, and even other input like
> > > >     Sales and Marketing experiences back into the development teams.
> > > >     Maybe we might even have our own "Operators and Users" lounge too.
> > > > :-P
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     Cheers
> > > >
> > > >     Tristan
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >     _______________________________________________
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> > > >     Post to     : openstack at lists.openstack.org
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> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Mailing list:
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> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Sean Dague
> > > http://dague.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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