Open Stack

On Mon, Nov 24, 2014 at 12:27 AM, Thierry Carrez <thierry at openstack.org>
wrote:

> Joe Gordon wrote:
> > On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 3:08 AM, Thierry Carrez <thierry at openstack.org
> > <mailto:thierry at openstack.org>> wrote:
> >
> >     Hi, fellow TC members,
> >
> >     After a noisy ML thread, opinionated blogposts, and strawmen on
> Gerrit,
> >     we are at a stage where we seek potential convergence between TC
> members
> >     around a common proposal (before we put it in words and RFC to the
> wider
> >     community). This phase started as informal in-person discussions in
> >     Paris, and we set up TC 5-members hangouts (2 so far) to continue
> that
> >     discussion over a high-bandwidth medium. This email summarizes the
> >     progress so far for everyone to know.
> >
> >     Note that there is little point in commenting on this thread, the
> >     discussion is still very much at its early stages and we don't know
> yet
> >     what the final proposal will be (nor if it will be truly consensual
> >     amongst the TC members). At this point I prefer we continue to
> solidify
> >     it in high-bandwidth discussions between TC members.
> >
> >
> > I know you said there is little point in commenting on this thread, but
> > I do have one comment to add anyway.
> >
> > While I am excited to see the TC working towards a collective opinion.
> > There is one group that I would really like to hear from in this debate,
> > the ATC community (including stackforge) as a whole.  IMHO TC members
> > and active community members alike are too close to the problem to see
> > all perspectives. Furthermore I don't know what the most common
> > opinion(s) is on project structure reform.
> >
> > To that end, I would like to propose polling ATC members to get some
> > rough numbers on where the community as a whole stands on this issue.
> > Based on the summary below it looks like project structure reform has
> > now been broken down into several smaller concrete questions, perhaps we
> > can take those and turn them into a poll. The results of this poll would
> > naturally be non-binding and only there to help the TC converge on a
> > solution.
>
> At this point the "concrete questions" are just artifacts in the
> difficult and long process of converging to a potential solution, so I
> think it's too early to poll. We haven't even included all TC members in
> that discussion yet, and some points are very likely to completely
> disappear at the next iteration. I posted this status report for
> transparency, but it is far from being anything solid yet.


Fair enough, these may not be the right questions.


>
> There have been a number of proposals posted already (in blog posts, on
> Gerrit), but mostly by individuals. This exercise is to see if there
> could be a middle ground between those individual proposals. I'm
> optimistic that there can be (since I would hate to come down to a close
> vote on such an important issue), but I fear that polling on
> intermediate steps of that discussion will only disrupt that delicate
> process and bring us back to a polarized debate where no one will bulge.


True, but if the TC agrees on something and valid concerns are raised, then
we may be back at square one anyway.


>


> I'm hoping we can get to something we can propose and RFC on by the end
> of this month.
>

Part of the difficulty for me, is answering the question: "Why do we need
project structure reform?" I have a few possible answers, but without
knowing the "why" its very hard for me to understand the "how."  I have
asked several TC members and have gotten back several great but different
answers. I was thinking more about basic background questions versus a full
proposal to RFC on.


I was thinking of a few questions along these lines:

1) Why is project structure reform needed (select all that are applicable)?
  - Allow competition inside of OpenStack; projects duke it out inside of
the OpenStack banner before picking a winner
  - Promote diversity inside of OpenStack; not everything is one size fits
all
  - Make the process to approve new projects smoother for everyone involved
  - The TC is unable to actively govern all of OpenStack projects equally,
and this only gets worse over time
  - Too hard to determine the quality of projects in OpenStack
  - Companies won't contribute to stackforge projects, and will only
contribute to OpenStack projects
  - Help horizontal teams scale better
  - Stop gating everything on everything else
  - Other: _______________
  - It's not, I am happy with the current project structure

2) Do you think OpenStack re-invents the wheel too often?
 - Yes
 - No

3) Should OpenStack do a better job of promoting an ecosystem around things
in the OpenStack namespace? Projects that aren't in 'OpenStack' but work
well with or on OpenStack.
 - Yes
 - No

4) Should OpenStack significantly grow the number of projects in the
OpenStack namespace?
  - Yes
  - No

5) Is there anything on the OpenStack namespace that you don't use because
you are using something else outside of the OpenStack namespace instead?
 - Yes
 - No

6) If Yes to 5, what and why?
_________________

7) How do you tell if a OpenStack project is production ready (select all
that are applicable)?
- If its part of the integrated release or not.
- If its packaged
- If its deployed in a public cloud
- If my vendor supports it
- Other: ______________________________



> --
> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
>
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