[openstack-tc] Discussion about a new umbrella / project for consumer / user experience

Anne Gentle anne at openstack.org
Fri Jan 24 18:38:00 UTC 2014

On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 12:23 PM, Doug Hellmann <doug.hellmann at dreamhost.com
> wrote:

> On Fri, Jan 24, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Thierry Carrez <thierry at openstack.org>wrote:
>> Jesse Noller wrote:
>> > [...]
>> > Given the schism in audiences, it looks like Horizon, this project, a
>> unified CLI project and management of the individual CLI tools would fall
>> under a Consumer / User Experience umbrella.
>> >
>> > If you look at the governance setup:
>> >
>> >       http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/governance/commit/
>> >
>> > It seems to make sense that the UX proposal potentially be revived; but
>> have actionable items under 3-4 sub teams:
>> >
>> > 1: Unified SDK / Consumer-Developer tools
>> > 2: Unified Client tools (CLI)
>> > 3: Horizon (UI)
>> > 4: Security
>> > 5: i18n
>> A few remarks...
>> I agree that the current CLI / developer experience is sub-optimal. From
>> an organizational perspective, I think we can blame having the client
>> libraries attached to each corresponding project's program, and having
>> no clear home for the common client efforts.
>> So I'd definitely welcome a team working on that, and would also
>> definitely consider placing the existing client libraries under that
>> umbrella if that group is willing to maintain them.
>> But there are two key things to take into account.
>> (1) Teams should exist first
>> You can mandate anything you want, in the end if nobody is doing the
>> work you won't get anywhere. That's why in OpenStack we took the view of
>> letting teams spontaneously form rather than mandating that they exist,
>> or rather then having them ask for permission first. A lot of people
>> have been talking about CLI work in the past, but they never formed a
>> team. The first step here is to gather the group of people interested in
>> that topic and self-organize.
>> (2) Teams scope should match what they work on
>> There is no point in defining a scope if it doesn't match an existing
>> team's focus. Yes, from an organizational perspective it makes sense to
>> have Horizon and CLI folks in the same group, but if those end up being
>> two separate subgroups working on those two sub-aspects, then two
>> separate teams make a lot more sense.
>> In summary, I'd really like we have a team working on unified CLI. But
>> me saying it won't make it happen. A group of people working on that
>> will make it happen. That group should form, self-organize, and start
>> working on stuff. If the overlap between that team and another existing
>> team is very large, then it will make sense for them to regroup. If not,
>> they should exist as a separate team. Once that team starts producing
>> outputs, it can apply to be recognized as an official program (which
>> would make a lot of sense to me).
> When it rains it pours.
> I was speaking with Dean Troyer earlier today about putting together an
> incubation request for an SDK program to hose the unified CLI (as a
> scripting SDK) and client libraries (starting with python and expanding to
> other languages later). There is already a group building the CLI (led by
> Dean), and many of the people working on that are also interested in the
> client libraries issue (along with many new contributors such as Jesse).
> Since the CLI work is at a point where we think it's ready to be considered
> for incubation, I suggested that Dean look into whether he would be able to
> take the time to lead up the effort to create the program as part of
> finding a proper home for the CLI. If he can't, we'll find someone else
> from the group.
Dean Troyer is already PTL of Devstack, so let's spread out this work a bit
if possible.

Jesse, do these answers help you get the big picture and identify a home
for the CLI efforts?


> Doug
>> --
>> Thierry Carrez (ttx)
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