[Openstack-operators] What would you like in Pike?

Piet Kruithof pkruithofjr at gmail.com
Thu Jan 19 20:33:23 UTC 2017


I wanted to let the group know that a study that was conducted by OpenStack
UX on behalf of the community.  In fact, Tim was one of the participants.

https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1J6-8MwUGGOwy6-A_w1EaQcZQ1Bq2YWeB-kw4vCFxbwM/edit?usp=sharing


Cheers,

Piet

On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 12:24 PM, Blair Bethwaite <blair.bethwaite at gmail.com
> wrote:

> Hi Tim,
>
> We did wonder in last week's meeting whether quota management and nested
> project support (particularly which flows are most important) would be a
> good session for the Boston Forum...? Would you be willing to lead such a
> discussion?
>
> Cheers,
>
> On 19 January 2017 at 19:59, Tim Bell <Tim.Bell at cern.ch> wrote:
>
>>
>> On 18 Jan 2017, at 23:20, Matt Jarvis <matt at mattjarvis.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> I think one of the problems we're seeing now is that a lot of operators
>> have actually already scratched some of these missing functionality itches
>> like quota management and project nesting by handling those scenarios in
>> external management systems. I know we certainly did at DataCentred. That
>> probably means these things don't surface enough to upstream as
>> requirements, whereas for new users who aren't necessarily in the loop with
>> community communication they may well be creating friction to adoption.
>>
>>
>> For the quota management, I think the first discussions were in the Hong
>> Kong summit around the Boson project and this has moved backwards and
>> forwards between services, libraries and improving the code. While the user
>> need is relatively simple to state, these are not simple problems to solve
>> so it is often difficult for the items to get to the priority lists.
>>
>> One of the difficulties we have found is that we could get staff for a
>> project such as quota management for a short period (e.g. 1 year). However,
>> from the initial specification to code acceptance is often an extended
>> period so these sort of changes can get stalled but the people contributing
>> need to show results for their work (such as a thesis).
>>
>> From the scientific working group discussions, the quota and nesting
>> discussions have come up regularly so the requirements are still there.
>>
>> Tim
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017 at 10:06 PM, Sam Morrison <sorrison at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I would love it if all the projects policy.json was actually usable. Too
>>> many times the policy.json isn’t the only place where authN happens with
>>> lots of hard coded is_admin etc.
>>>
>>> Just the ability to to have a certain role to a certain thing would be
>>> amazing. It makes it really hard to have read only users to generate
>>> reports with that we can show our funders how much people use our openstack
>>> cloud.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Sam
>>> (non-enterprise)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18 Jan 2017, at 6:10 am, Melvin Hillsman <mrhillsman at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Well said, as a consequence of this thread being on the mailing list, I
>>> hope that we can get *all* operators, end-users, and app-developers to
>>> respond. If you are aware of folks who do not fall under the "enterprise"
>>> label please encourage them directly to respond; I would encourage everyone
>>> to do the same.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 11:52 AM, Silence Dogood <matt at nycresistor.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I can see a huge problem with your contributing operators... all of
>>>> them are enterprise.
>>>>
>>>> enterprise needs are radically different from small to medium deployers
>>>> who openstack has traditionally failed to work well for.
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Piet Kruithof <pkruithofjr at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry for the late reply, but wanted to add a few things.
>>>>>
>>>>> OpenStack UX did suggest to the foundation that the community needs a
>>>>> second survey that focuses exclusively on operators.  The rationale was
>>>>> that the user survey is primarily focused on marketing data and there isn't
>>>>> really a ton of space for additional questions that focuses exclusively on
>>>>> operators. We also recommended a second survey called a MaxDiff study that
>>>>> enabled operators to identify areas of improvement and also rate them in
>>>>> order of importance including distance.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also an etherpad that asked operators three priorities for
>>>>> OpenStack:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/mitaka-openstackux-enterprise-goals
>>>>>
>>>>> It was distributed about a year ago, so I'm not sure how much of it
>>>>> was relevant.  The list does include responses from folks at TWC, Walmart,
>>>>> Pacific Northwest Labs, BestBuy, Comcast, NTTi3 and the US government. It
>>>>> might be a good place for the group to add their own improvements as well
>>>>> as "+" other peoples suggestions.
>>>>>
>>>>> There is also a list of studies that have been conducted with
>>>>> operators on behalf of the community. The study included quotas, deployment
>>>>> and information needs. Note that the information needs study extended
>>>>> beyond docs to things like the need to easily google solutions and the need
>>>>> for SMEs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Hope this is helpful.
>>>>>
>>>>> Piet
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> OPENSTACK USER EXPERIENCE STATUS
>>>>> The goal of this presentation is to provide an overview of research
>>>>> that was conducted on behalf of the OpenStack community.  All of the
>>>>> studies conducted on behalf of the OpenStack community were included in
>>>>> this presentation.
>>>>>
>>>>> Why this research matters:
>>>>> Consistency across projects has been identified as an issue in the
>>>>> user survey.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study design:
>>>>> This usability study, conducted at the OpenStack Austin Summit,
>>>>> observed 10 operators as they attempted to perform standard tasks in the
>>>>> OpenStack client.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1hZYCOADJ1gXiFHT1ahwv
>>>>> 8-tDIQCSingu7zqSMbKFZ_Y/edit#slide=id.p
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> USER RESEARCH RESULTS: SEARCHLIGHT/HORIZON INTEGRATION
>>>>> Why this research matters:
>>>>> The Searchlight plug-in for Horizon aims to provide a consistent
>>>>> search API across OpenStack resources. To validate its suitability and ease
>>>>> of use, we evaluated it with cloud operators who use Horizon in their role.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study design:
>>>>> Five operators performed tasks that explored Searchlight’s filters,
>>>>> full-text capability, and multi-term search.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TfF2sm98Iha-bNwBJrCT
>>>>> Cp6k49zde1Z8I9Qthx1moIM/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> CLOUD OPERATOR INTERVIEWS: QUOTA MANAGEMENT AT PRODUCTION SCALE
>>>>> Why this research matters:
>>>>> The study was initiated following operator feedback identifying quotas
>>>>> as a challenge to manage at scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study design:
>>>>> One-on-one interviews with cloud operators sought to understand their
>>>>> methods for managing quotas at production scale.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1J6-8MwUGGOwy6-A_w1Ea
>>>>> QcZQ1Bq2YWeB-kw4vCFxbwM/edit
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> CLOUD OPERATOR INTERVIEWS: INFORMATION NEEDS
>>>>> Why this research matters:
>>>>> Documentation has been consistently identified as an issue by
>>>>> operators during the user survey.  However, we wanted to understand the
>>>>> entire workflow associated with identifying and consuming information to
>>>>> resolve issues associated with operating production clouds.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study design:
>>>>> This research consisted of interviews with seven cloud operators from
>>>>> different industries with varying levels of experience to determine how
>>>>> they find solutions to problems that arise.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1LKxQx4Or4qOBwPQbt4jA
>>>>> ZncGCLlk_Ez8ZRB_bGp19JU/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> OPERATOR INTERVIEWS: DEPLOYMENT AT PRODUCTION
>>>>> Why this research matters:
>>>>> Deployment has been consistently identified as an issue by operators
>>>>> during the user survey and impacts both adoption and operations of
>>>>> OpenStack.  We wanted to do a deep dive with operators to identify the
>>>>> specific issues impacting deployment.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study design:
>>>>> A series of 1:1 interviews that included included discussions around
>>>>> organizations, tools, workflows and pain points associated with deploying
>>>>> OpenStack.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/14UerMR4HrXKP_0NE_C-W
>>>>> J16YQFzgetL1Tmym9FNFzpY/edit?usp=sharing
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> ___
>>>>> OPERATOR USABILITY: OPENSTACKCLIENT
>>>>> Why this research matters:
>>>>> Consistency across projects has been identified as an issue in the
>>>>> user survey.
>>>>>
>>>>> Study design:
>>>>> This usability study, conducted at the OpenStack Austin Summit,
>>>>> observed 10 operators as they attempted to perform standard tasks in the
>>>>> OpenStack client.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1cBUJuLL9s7JQppVlDBBJ
>>>>> MrNNpfqwdkHyfZFuwY6lNgM/edit#slide=id.g1a8df2eaf2_1_0
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Jonathan Proulx <jon at csail.mit.edu>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What Tim said :)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> my ordering:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1) Preemptable Instances -- this would be huge and life changing I'd
>>>>>>    give up any other improvements to get this.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2) Deeper utilization of nested projects -- mostly we find ways to
>>>>>>    mange with out this but it would be great to have.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    A) to allow research groups (our internal fiscal/administrative
>>>>>>    divisions) to sub divide quota allocations accordinf to their own
>>>>>>    priorities on a self serve basis (provided proper RBAC configs)
>>>>>>    B) to answer show back questions more easily.  Currently with flat
>>>>>>    projects individual research groups have multiple openstack
>>>>>>    projects, by convention we mange to usually be able to aggregaet
>>>>>>    them in reporting, but deing able to show susage by a parent and
>>>>>>    all it 's childeren woudl be very useful
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3) Quota improvements -- this is important but we've learned to deal
>>>>>>    with it
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -Jon
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:10:40AM +0000, Tim Bell wrote:
>>>>>> :There are a couple of items which have not been able to make it to
>>>>>> the top priority for recent releases which would greatly simplify our day
>>>>>> to day work with the users and make the cloud more flexible. The background
>>>>>> use cases are described in https://openstack-in-productio
>>>>>> n.blogspot.fr/2016/04/resource-management-at-cern.html
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :-          Quota management improvements
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :o    Manual interventions are often required to sync the current
>>>>>> usage with the OpenStack view
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :o    Nested projects are now in Keystone but is limited support in
>>>>>> other projects for the end user benefit, such as delegation of quota for
>>>>>> sub-projects
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :-          Nova pre-emptible instances  (
>>>>>> https://review.openstack.org/#/c/104883/) to give spot market
>>>>>> functionality
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :o    We want to run our cloud at near 100% utilisation but this
>>>>>> requires rapid ejection of lower priority VMs
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :That having been said, I also fully support key priorities currently
>>>>>> being worked on such as cells v2 and placement.
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :Tim
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :From: Melvin Hillsman <mrhillsman at gmail.com>
>>>>>> :Date: Friday, 13 January 2017 at 02:30
>>>>>> :To: openstack-operators <openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org>
>>>>>> :Subject: [Openstack-operators] What would you like in Pike?
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :Hey everyone,
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :I am hoping to get a dialogue started to gain some insight around
>>>>>> things Operators, Application Developers, and End Users would like to see
>>>>>> happen in Pike. If you had a dedicated environment, dedicated team, and
>>>>>> freedom to choose how you deployed, new features, older features,
>>>>>> enhancements, etc, and were not required to deal with customer/client
>>>>>> tickets, calls, and maintenances, could keep a good feedback loop between
>>>>>> your team and the upstream community of any project, what would like to
>>>>>> make happen or work on hoping the next release of OpenStack
>>>>>> had/included/changed/enhanced/removed…?
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :Kind regards,
>>>>>> :--
>>>>>> :Melvin Hillsman
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :Ops Technical Lead
>>>>>> :OpenStack Innovation Center
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :mrhillsman at gmail.com<mailto:mrhillsman at gmail.com>
>>>>>> :phone: (210) 312-1267
>>>>>> :mobile: (210) 413-1659
>>>>>> :Learner | Ideation | Belief | Responsibility | Command
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :http://osic.org
>>>>>> :
>>>>>> :
>>>>>>
>>>>>> :_______________________________________________
>>>>>> :OpenStack-operators mailing list
>>>>>> :OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>>>>> :http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/opensta
>>>>>> ck-operators
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>>>>>> OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstac
>>>>>> k-operators
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Pieter C Kruithof Jr, MS, CPE
>>>>> PTL, OpenStack UX project
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/pkruithofjr
>>>>>
>>>>> 512 576-2844 <(512)%20576-2844>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> This email message and any attachments hereto is intended for use only
>>>>> by the addressee(s) named herein. If you have received this email in error,
>>>>> please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the original
>>>>> and any copy of this message and its attachments.
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>>>>> OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstac
>>>>> k-operators
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>>>> OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Kind regards,
>>>
>>> Melvin Hillsman
>>> Ops Technical Lead
>>> OpenStack Innovation Center
>>>
>>> mrhillsman at gmail.com
>>> phone: (210) 312-1267
>>> mobile: (210) 413-1659
>>> http://osic.org
>>>
>>> Learner | Ideation | Belief | Responsibility | Command
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>>> OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> OpenStack-operators mailing list
>>> OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> ~Blairo
>
> _______________________________________________
> OpenStack-operators mailing list
> OpenStack-operators at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-operators
>
>


-- 
Pieter C Kruithof Jr, MS, CPE
PTL, OpenStack UX project

http://www.linkedin.com/in/pkruithofjr

512 576-2844


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