[Openstack-operators] Experience with Cinder volumes as root disks?

John Petrini jpetrini at coredial.com
Tue Aug 1 19:07:29 UTC 2017

Yes from Mitaka onward the snapshot happens at the RBD level which is fast.
It's the flattening and uploading of the image to glance that's the major
pain point. Still it's worlds better than the qemu snapshots to the local
disk prior to Mitaka.

John Petrini

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On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Mike Lowe <jomlowe at iu.edu> wrote:

> Strictly speaking I don’t think this is the case anymore for Mitaka or
> later.  Snapping nova does take more space as the image is flattened, but
> the dumb download then upload back into ceph has been cut out.  With
> careful attention paid to discard/TRIM I believe you can maintain the thin
> provisioning properties of RBD.  The workflow is explained here.
> https://www.sebastien-han.fr/blog/2015/10/05/openstack-
> nova-snapshots-on-ceph-rbd/
> On Aug 1, 2017, at 11:14 AM, John Petrini <jpetrini at coredial.com> wrote:
> Just my two cents here but we started out using mostly Ephemeral storage
> in our builds and looking back I wish we hadn't. Note we're using Ceph as a
> backend so my response is tailored towards Ceph's behavior.
> The major pain point is snapshots. When you snapshot an nova volume an RBD
> snapshot occurs and is very quick and uses very little additional storage,
> however the snapshot is then copied into the images pool and in the process
> is converted from a snapshot to a full size image. This takes a long time
> because you have to copy a lot of data and it takes up a lot of space. It
> also causes a great deal of IO on the storage and means you end up with a
> bunch of "snapshot images" creating clutter. On the other hand volume
> snapshots are near instantaneous without the other drawbacks I've mentioned.
> On the plus side for ephemeral storage; resizing the root disk of images
> works better. As long as your image is configured properly it's just a
> matter of initiating a resize and letting the instance reboot to grow the
> root disk. When using volumes as your root disk you instead have to
> shutdown the instance, grow the volume and boot.
> I hope this help! If anyone on the list knows something I don't know
> regarding these issues please chime in. I'd love to know if there's a
> better way.
> Regards,
> John Petrini
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Kimball, Conrad <
> conrad.kimball at boeing.com> wrote:
>> In our process of standing up an OpenStack internal cloud we are facing
>> the question of ephemeral storage vs. Cinder volumes for instance root
>> disks.
>> As I look at public clouds such as AWS and Azure, the norm is to use
>> persistent volumes for the root disk.  AWS started out with images booting
>> onto ephemeral disk, but soon after they released Elastic Block Storage and
>> ever since the clear trend has been to EBS-backed instances, and now when I
>> look at their quick-start list of 33 AMIs, all of them are EBS-backed.  And
>> I’m not even sure one can have anything except persistent root disks in
>> Azure VMs.
>> Based on this and a number of other factors I think we want our user
>> normal / default behavior to boot onto Cinder-backed volumes instead of
>> onto ephemeral storage.  But then I look at OpenStack and its design point
>> appears to be booting images onto ephemeral storage, and while it is
>> possible to boot an image onto a new volume this is clumsy (haven’t found a
>> way to make this the default behavior) and we are experiencing performance
>> problems (that admittedly we have not yet run to ground).
>> So …
>> ·         Are other operators routinely booting onto Cinder volumes
>> instead of ephemeral storage?
>> ·         What has been your experience with this; any advice?
>> *Conrad Kimball*
>> Associate Technical Fellow
>> Chief Architect, Enterprise Cloud Services
>> Application Infrastructure Services / Global IT Infrastructure /
>> Information Technology & Data Analytics
>> conrad.kimball at boeing.com
>> P.O. Box 3707, Mail Code 7M-TE
>> Seattle, WA  98124-2207
>> Bellevue 33-11 bldg, office 3A6-3.9
>> Mobile:  425-591-7802 <(425)%20591-7802>
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