Open Stack

Ha, now that's a truth :)

On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Matt Jarvis <matt.jarvis at datacentred.co.uk>
wrote:

> Agreed, although I've learned over the years that second guessing what
> actions customers may or may not take is usually a losing battle ;)
>
> On 26 February 2016 at 13:55, Robert Starmer <robert at kumul.us> wrote:
>
>> For a user that's gone and deleted their network services, then wouldn't
>> they perhaps be savvy enough to deploy a network/subnet pair.  If they
>> don't want to pay for the router then this is what they'd be working
>> towards (by deleting their initially provisioned service).  As it stands
>> today, if you have a single network available (regardless of upstream
>> router), your "nova boot" process will associate the VM to that network
>> automatically.
>>
>> For the user who is trying to do something specific, giving them an
>> option (opt-out if you don't want a network), actually maps the most common
>> case  of user wants a VM to be able to get to the world to the default, and
>> the odd (and I haven't ever seen an actual use case where I want a VM
>> without a network of some nature associated to it) case of "I don't want
>> any network" an option by specifically calling that out on boot.
>>
>> And I personally am unaware of any service provider that doesn't give you
>> network access by default when you stand up a project.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Feb 26, 2016 at 5:06 AM, Matt Jarvis <
>> matt.jarvis at datacentred.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> As I've already said in this thread, we automatically provide an initial
>>> network and router for all our customers as part of our on-boarding process
>>> so in our case this problem doesn't actually exist unless customers delete
>>> their initial router and network. If a customer has already deleted these
>>> for some reason, my concern around an opt-out process is that we start
>>> automatically creating chargeable entities without the customer
>>> specifically asking for it.
>>>
>>> Out of interest, are there really OpenStack public clouds where the
>>> cloud provider doesn't automatically provision an initial network and
>>> router ?
>>>
>>> On 26 February 2016 at 11:36, Jeremy Stanley <fungi at yuggoth.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2016-02-26 11:21:47 +0000 (+0000), Matt Jarvis wrote:
>>>> > From a public cloud perspective I'm not convinced that an opt-out
>>>> argument
>>>> > is the right way to go. A router in our context is a chargeable item,
>>>> > because it has an external IP address, so automatically creating stuff
>>>> > without the user specifying it is not an ideal outcome. Personally I'd
>>>> > rather see an opt-in argument ie. option 1
>>>>
>>>> As a user of many public clouds, some of which use Nova network,
>>>> some of which use Neutron with a common flat provider network, et
>>>> cetera, _I_ want them to behave consistently when I ask them to boot
>>>> a node rather than needing to remember that on some subset of them I
>>>> also need to perform an unholy dance to convince them I really want
>>>> to have access to the servers I've created.
>>>>
>>>> Making it so that some public cloud providers can continue to
>>>> require completely different business logic than others just to have
>>>> a reachable server basically shoots any hope we have as a community
>>>> for consistency and "interoperability" in the head. Cloud providers
>>>> seem to think that they'll attract me with their unique market
>>>> differentiating features, but I could really care less. What I want
>>>> is for OpenStack to succeed by providing a seamless experience where
>>>> things look as identical as possible no matter what provider or
>>>> environment I use. OpenStack doesn't need to compete against itself,
>>>> there is plenty enough competition out there for us already even if
>>>> we band together in a unity of design and function.
>>>> --
>>>> Jeremy Stanley
>>>>
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>>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>
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