[Openstack-operators] [openstack-dev] [stable][all] Keeping Juno "alive" for longer.

Sean Dague sean at dague.net
Mon Nov 9 21:05:51 UTC 2015

On 11/09/2015 03:49 PM, Maish Saidel-Keesing wrote:
> On 11/09/15 22:06, Tom Cameron wrote:
>>> I would not call that the extreme minority.
>>> I would say a good percentage of users are on only getting to Juno now.
>> The survey seems to indicate lots of people are on Havana, Icehouse
>> and Juno in production. I would love to see the survey ask _why_
>> people are on older versions because for many operators I suspect they
>> forked when they needed a feature or function that didn't yet exist,
>> and they're now stuck in a horrible parallel universe where upstream
>> has not only added the missing feature but has also massively improved
>> code quality. Meanwhile, they can't spend the person hours on either
>> porting their work into the new Big Tent world we live in, or can't
>> bare the thought of having to throw away their hard earned tech debt.
>> For more on this, see the myth of the "sunken cost".
>> If it turns out people really are deploying new clouds with old
>> versions on purpose because of a perceived stability benefit, then
>> they aren't reading the release schedule pages close enough to see
>> that what they're deploying today will be abandoned soon in the
>> future. In my _personal_ opinion which has nothing to do with
>> Openstack or my employer, this is really poor operational due diligence.
> I don't think people are deploying old clouds or old versions.
> They are just stuck on older versions. Why (as matt said in his reply)
> the upgrade process is hell! And when your environment grows past a
> certain point if you have have to upgrade say 100 hosts, it can take a
> good couple of months to get the quirks fixed and sorted out, and then
> you have to start all over again, because the next release just came out.

Can you be more specific about "upgrade process is hell!"? We continue
to work on improvements in upgrade testing to block patches that will
make life hell for upgrading. Getting a bunch of specifics on bugs that
triggered during upgrade by anyone doing it would go a long way in
helping us figure out what's the next soft spot to tackle there.

But without that data coming back in specifics it's hard to close
whatever gap is here, real or perceived.


Sean Dague

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