[Openstack-operators] [stable][all] Keeping Juno "alive" for longer.
emccormick at cirrusseven.com
Fri Nov 6 17:36:44 UTC 2015
On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 12:28 PM, Mark Baker <mark.baker at canonical.com> wrote:
> Worth mentioning that OpenStack releases that come out at the same time as
> Ubuntu LTS releases (12.04 + Essex, 14.04 + Icehouse, 16.04 + Mitaka) are
> supported for 5 years by Canonical so are already kind of an LTS. Support in
> this context means patches, updates and commercial support (for a fee).
> For paying customers 3 years of patches, updates and commercial support for
> April releases, (Kilo, O, Q etc..) is also available.
Does that mean that you are actually backporting and gate testing
patches downstream that aren't being done upstream? I somehow doubt
it, but if so, then it would be great if you could lead some sort of
initiative to push those patches back upstream.
> Best Regards
> Mark Baker
> On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 5:03 PM, James King <james at agentultra.com> wrote:
>> +1 for some sort of LTS release system.
>> Telcos and risk-averse organizations working with sensitive data might not
>> be able to upgrade nearly as fast as the releases keep coming out. From the
>> summit in Japan it sounds like companies running some fairly critical public
>> infrastructure on Openstack aren’t going to be upgrading to Kilo any time
>> Public clouds might even benefit from this. I know we (Dreamcompute) are
>> working towards tracking the upstream releases closer… but it’s not feasible
>> for everyone.
>> I’m not sure whether the resources exist to do this but it’d be a nice to
>> have, imho.
>> > On Nov 6, 2015, at 11:47 AM, Donald Talton <DonaldTalton at fico.com>
>> > wrote:
>> > I like the idea of LTS releases.
>> > Speaking to my own deployments, there are many new features we are not
>> > interested in, and wouldn't be, until we can get organizational (cultural)
>> > change in place, or see stability and scalability.
>> > We can't rely on, or expect, that orgs will move to the CI/CD model for
>> > infra, when they aren't even ready to do that for their own apps. It's still
>> > a new "paradigm" for many of us. CI/CD requires a considerable engineering
>> > effort, and given that the decision to "switch" to OpenStack is often driven
>> > by cost-savings over enterprise virtualization, adding those costs back in
>> > via engineering salaries doesn't make fiscal sense.
>> > My big argument is that if Icehouse/Juno works and is stable, and I
>> > don't need newer features from subsequent releases, why would I expend the
>> > effort until such a time that I do want those features? Thankfully there are
>> > vendors that understand this. Keeping up with the release cycle just for the
>> > sake of keeping up with the release cycle is exhausting.
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Tony Breeds [mailto:tony at bakeyournoodle.com]
>> > Sent: Thursday, November 05, 2015 11:15 PM
>> > To: OpenStack Development Mailing List
>> > Cc: openstack-operators at lists.openstack.org
>> > Subject: [Openstack-operators] [stable][all] Keeping Juno "alive" for
>> > longer.
>> > Hello all,
>> > I'll start by acknowledging that this is a big and complex issue and I
>> > do not claim to be across all the view points, nor do I claim to be
>> > particularly persuasive ;P
>> > Having stated that, I'd like to seek constructive feedback on the idea
>> > of keeping Juno around for a little longer. During the summit I spoke to a
>> > number of operators, vendors and developers on this topic. There was some
>> > support and some "That's crazy pants!" responses. I clearly didn't make it
>> > around to everyone, hence this email.
>> > Acknowledging my affiliation/bias: I work for Rackspace in the private
>> > cloud team. We support a number of customers currently running Juno that
>> > are, for a variety of reasons, challenged by the Kilo upgrade.
>> > Here is a summary of the main points that have come up in my
>> > conversations, both for and against.
>> > Keep Juno:
>> > * According to the current user survey Icehouse still has the
>> > biggest install base in production clouds. Juno is second, which
>> > makes
>> > sense. If we EOL Juno this month that means ~75% of production clouds
>> > will be running an EOL'd release. Clearly many of these operators
>> > have
>> > support contracts from their vendor, so those operators won't be left
>> > completely adrift, but I believe it's the vendors that benefit from
>> > keeping
>> > Juno around. By working together *in the community* we'll see the best
>> > results.
>> > * We only recently EOL'd Icehouse. Sure it was well communicated,
>> > but we
>> > still have a huge Icehouse/Juno install base.
>> > For me this is pretty compelling but for balance ....
>> > Keep the current plan and EOL Juno Real Soon Now:
>> > * There is also no ignoring the elephant in the room that with HP
>> > stepping
>> > back from public cloud there are questions about our CI capacity, and
>> > keeping Juno will have an impact on that critical resource.
>> > * Juno (and other stable/*) resources have a non-zero impact on *every*
>> > project, esp. @infra and release management. We need to ensure this
>> > isn't too much of a burden. This mostly means we need enough
>> > trustworthy
>> > volunteers.
>> > * Juno is also tied up with Python 2.6 support. When
>> > Juno goes, so will Python 2.6 which is a happy feeling for a number of
>> > people, and more importantly reduces complexity in our project
>> > infrastructure.
>> > * Even if we keep Juno for 6 months or 1 year, that doesn't help vendors
>> > that are "on the hook" for multiple years of support, so for that case
>> > we're really only delaying the inevitable.
>> > * Some number of the production clouds may never migrate from $version,
>> > in
>> > which case longer support for Juno isn't going to help them.
>> > I'm sure these question were well discussed at the VYR summit where we
>> > set the EOL date for Juno, but I was new then :) What I'm asking is:
>> > 1) Is it even possible to keep Juno alive (is the impact on the project
>> > as
>> > a whole acceptable)?
>> > Assuming a positive answer:
>> > 2) Who's going to do the work?
>> > - Me, who else?
>> > 3) What do we do if people don't actually do the work but we as a
>> > community
>> > have made a commitment?
>> > 4) If we keep Juno alive for $some_time, does that imply we also bump
>> > the
>> > life cycle on Kilo and liberty and Mitaka etc?
>> > Yours Tony.
>> >  http://www.openstack.org/assets/survey/Public-User-Survey-Report.pdf
>> > (page 20)
>> >  http://git.openstack.org/cgit/openstack/nova/tag/?h=icehouse-eol
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