Open Stack

Hey Ildiko and Joseph,

I like the enthusiasm ☺ thank you both for getting on board!

To answer your questions Ildiko, they are usually in-tree: https://github.com/openstack/swift/tree/master/install-guide/source (just an example)

Not to shoot everyone down in flames straight away but we need to have a deep dive discussion about this at the PTG before we create repos and build environments.

Our Install Guides and Deployment Guide methods are based off what you are suggesting. I would recommend reading the project-specific install guide plan here: http://specs.openstack.org/openstack/docs-specs/specs/newton/project-specific-installguides.html

That being said, it is up to the project to include the relevant administration guide section, and not up to us. We would have to ensure several of the following things:


1.       Project teams are on board and are capable themselves to look after their administration content(s).

2.       We have the bandwidth to plan and action this item – which, at the moment, I have every intention of directing our team to on our already large pile of technical debt. I would prefer not to add any more without dedicated free resources.

I would like to take these ideas and bring them to table at the PTG and ensure, first of all, we have full team support. After that, we need to ensure we have a fully approved specification similar to the one above.

Please do not take this as a deterrence from any major discussion points, I think this is definitely a conversation we should be having. ☺ But we already have a large list of items to tackle for the Pike release and it is my job to ensure they are actioned and that we are not overloading our shrinking team.

Hopefully this answers some of your questions, and positions us for some good conversations and planning points at the PTG ☺

Cheers,

Alex

From: Ildiko Vancsa <ildiko.vancsa at gmail.com>
Date: Monday, February 6, 2017 at 6:30 PM
To: Joseph Robinson <joseph.robinson at RACKSPACE.COM>
Cc: Alexandra Settle <a.settle at outlook.com>, Lana Brindley <openstack at lanabrindley.com>, "openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org" <openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org>
Subject: Re: [OpenStack-docs] Admin Guide enhancements

Hi Joseph,

Thanks for the feedback and ideas. I added further comments in line below.

Thanks,
Ildikó


On 2017. Feb 2., at 21:51, Joseph Robinson <joseph.robinson at RACKSPACE.COM<mailto:joseph.robinson at RACKSPACE.COM>> wrote:

Hi all,

Ildiko, this sounds like a good plan – especially if moving the admin guide content into the developer repository is easier for the project teams to work with.

It seems like the next step since the user and admin guides were separated.

+1



This is pre-empting the PTG discussion somewhat, however I’m ready to help create repositories and build environments with the project teams to migrate the admin guide content, if we decide to use a similar process to the install guides and deploy guide.

Do we have projects where they store the docs in separate repo from the code or it’s usually in-tree?

I’m happy to start discussions/activities even before the PTG if we can, I think that should help with having a good progress with this in Pike.



Also, with the original bug: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1458820 after the PTG meetings, I could mark this as closed, and we can move to a specification, and then blueprint to migrate admin guide content?

I think it is a great plan. It’s better to track the activities in a blueprint once we agreed on the direction and the next steps.



Those are my thoughts for now. Thanks for bringing the idea forward :).

Thank you for your support. :)



Best Regards,

Joe Robinson
Information Developer II
 -------------------------------
Joseph.Robinson at Rackspace.com<mailto:Joseph.Robinson at Rackspace.com>

From: Alexandra Settle <a.settle at outlook.com<mailto:a.settle at outlook.com>>
Date: Thursday, 2 February 2017 at 1:06 AM
To: Ildiko Vancsa <ildiko.vancsa at gmail.com<mailto:ildiko.vancsa at gmail.com>>, Lana Brindley <openstack at lanabrindley.com<mailto:openstack at lanabrindley.com>>
Cc: "openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org>" <openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org>>
Subject: Re: [OpenStack-docs] Admin Guide enhancements

Thanks Ildiko ☺ looking forward to discussing this with you at the PTG!

From: Ildiko Vancsa <ildiko.vancsa at gmail.com<mailto:ildiko.vancsa at gmail.com>>
Date: Tuesday, January 31, 2017 at 5:43 PM
To: Lana Brindley <openstack at lanabrindley.com<mailto:openstack at lanabrindley.com>>
Cc: "openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org>" <openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org<mailto:openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org>>
Subject: Re: [OpenStack-docs] Admin Guide enhancements

Hi Lana,

Thank you, it all sounds great!

I added the topic to the PTG etherpad and linked in the mail thread fro the archive.

Thanks,
Ildikó


On 2017. Jan 29., at 16:23, Lana Brindley <openstack at lanabrindley.com<mailto:openstack at lanabrindley.com>> wrote:

Hi Ildikó,

Comments inline ...

On 27/01/17 20:12, Ildiko Vancsa wrote:


Hi Docs Team,

TL;DR I have an old bug report for the Admin Guide which targeted the way how it is versioned, or maybe rather not versioned and which also implied other actions on that document, for which we weren’t ready at the time of reporting the issue.

The bug report is the following: https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1458820

The bug report itself highlights that it is hard both from usage and from maintenance perspective to handle a document which contains information about at least three OpenStack releases in an iterative way. When someone tries to figure out what belongs to one single OpenStack release in it they need to put it together from an original state and the changes since that. In case of Telemetry we had issues with listing the collected meters in a user friendly way for instance.

Another big issue with the Admin Guide is the maintenance, which is tough with having the source files in a separate, centralized repository far away from the code where the changes happen. This way core reviewers have a hard time to keep the document in sync with the code as they cannot effectively -1 a code change as it *cannot* contain the doc changes.

I agree, it gets messy.




The reason I bring this up now again as I see the experiment with moving the Install Guide chapters to the project repositories a successful initiative, I remember seeing positive feedbacks about that move on the ML, etc. I think someone brought even up the Admin Guide as next candidate to a similar move.

We implemented the Deployment Guides in Ocata, and if we go by requests alone, then the Admin Guide is the next on the list.




I would like to ask the Docs Team for their opinions about this topic. I see a lot of advantage in having the documentation living together with the code and also having version controlled together with the code. This would also remove some of the burden from the Docs team as well, which I see a beneficial change too.

What is your view about this? Could this be a good topic for the upcoming PTG too maybe?

I think it's sensible to consider, at the very least. Can you add it to the PTG etherpad for discussion?

Lana

--
Lana Brindley
Technical Writer
Rackspace Cloud Builders Australia
http://lanabrindley.com<http://lanabrindley.com/>

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