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As previously mentioned, that thread did not reach a conclusion on
deprecation/deletion of nova network, or provide a justification to
remove it from the install guide. Individuals made comments that both
supported and did not support it, but neither the TC nor the nova team
has yet reached a conclusion.

We have and continue to recommend neutron.

For those significant number of folks who do wish to use nova-net, we
must continue to support them until such time as there is a conclusion
on the deprecation/deletion status.

Retaining nova-net instructions in the install guide is damn simple, and
achieves this aim.

I still don't think my question has received an answer, because:
* the change to the starter kit does not justify it
* it's not because of the purpose of the install guide

So, why is it, really?


Regards,


Tom

On 15/07/15 13:59, Lana Brindley wrote:
> As I inferred earlier, it's based on a TC decision:
> 
>> While nova-network is still supported because of concerns about
>> migration paths, neutron should be as strongly recommended for any new
>> deployments as is humanly possible so that we can ultimately get
>> ourselves out of the mess of having two network stacks.
> 
> I would also draw your attention to Monty's comment on that thread:
> 
>> Although I understand the reasonable concerns various people have
>> about the state of various things, I think it's irresponsible for us
>> to allow anyone to have the impression that there is a long-term
>> vision for OpenStack with two incompatible networking APIs. Further
>> to that, I think implying to anyone that they might want to start
>> TODAY installing something that we know is going to go away is not
>> doing anyone any favors.
> 
> L
> 
> On 15/07/15 15:51, Tom Fifield wrote:
>> Hi,
> 
>> nova-network provides a basic, working install, and is a scenario
>> preferred by quite a few users.
> 
>> "documenting every scenario" and not deleting nova-net are very far from
>> being equivalent.
> 
>> My question remains. What is the reason that we are removing a
>> long-standing section that satisfies the aims of the installation guide
>> for quite a few folks?
> 
> 
>> Regards,
> 
>> Tom
> 
>> On 15/07/15 13:27, Lana Brindley wrote:
>>> Hi Tom,
>>>
>>> The point of the Install Guide is to provide a basic working install,
>>> not document every scenario. All the other scenarios are in the
>>> Networking Guide.
>>>
>>> L
>>>
>>> On 15/07/15 15:10, Tom Fifield wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the link. However, that patch indicates that 4b is to become
>>>> the default option - not the only option :) It doesn't replace nova-net,
>>>> but instead the previous neutron option (which was already the default).
>>>
>>>> nova-network remains supported and is a preferred choice by many of our
>>>> users. Until we have a clear sign that it will be deprecated/deleted
>>>> (the starter kit discussion did not reach that point), we have to serve
>>>> our users.
>>>
>>>> So, given the nova-net instructions are damn simple to keep in, continue
>>>> to work well and remain supported - why would they be removed?
>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>> Tom
>>>
>>>> On 15/07/15 12:55, Lana Brindley wrote:
>>>>> Hi Tom,
>>>>>
>>>>> The TC have been working on this issue over the past few weeks, and
>>>>> merged a governance patch[1] last night to confirm that the
>>>>> provider-vlan/linux bridge option (affectionately known as scenario
>>>>> 4b[2]) is now part of the starter-kit, and therefore documented in the
>>>>> install guide going forward (replacing the nova-net scenario). The
>>>>> conversation in the patch is worth a read if you're interested.
>>>>>
>>>>> L
>>>>>
>>>>> 1: https://review.openstack.org/#/c/196438/
>>>>> 2: http://docs.openstack.org/networking-guide/deploy_scenario4b.html
>>>>>
>>>>> On 15/07/15 13:56, Tom Fifield wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>>> We never did get a clear answer as to what the thinking is around
>>>>>> dropping this option our users want from the install guide? As
>>>>>> previously mentioned, it's damn simple to keep in and continues to work
>>>>>> well, so difficult to understand.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Perhaps the position has changed to one of keeping this useful option?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 02/07/15 23:32, Tom Fifield wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Mark,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Welcome to a random discussion on the docs list! It seems like Matt K
>>>>>>> and yourself might have had a chat at the neutron midcycle regarding the
>>>>>>> install guide?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Tom
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 02/07/15 23:27, Matt Kassawara wrote:
>>>>>>>> Ask Mark McClain.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Thu, Jul 2, 2015 at 9:04 AM, Tom Fifield <tom at openstack.org
>>>>>>>> <mailto:tom at openstack.org>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     On 02/07/15 22:50, Matt Kassawara wrote:
>>>>>>>>     > With provider networks using the Linux bridge agent, neutron reaches the
>>>>>>>>     > simplicity of nova-network. Also, the installation guide will continue
>>>>>>>>     > to use the two-host architecture.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     Close, but not quite :) Anyway, as noted - the question is why something
>>>>>>>>     our users want is being dropped, when it's damn simple to keep in and
>>>>>>>>     continues to work well?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>     > On Tue, Jun 30, 2015 at 11:03 PM, Tom Fifield <tom at openstack.org <mailto:tom at openstack.org>
>>>>>>>>     > <mailto:tom at openstack.org <mailto:tom at openstack.org>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >     On 30/06/15 21:37, Karin Levenstein wrote:
>>>>>>>>     >     > Guide architecture change for Liberty
>>>>>>>>     >     > =====
>>>>>>>>     >     > At the Neutron meetup that Matt attended last week, there was discussion
>>>>>>>>     >     > about dropping nova-net and standardizing Neutron on Linux bridge rather
>>>>>>>>     >     > than OVS.
>>>>>>>>     >     > The plan that came out of the meeting: changing networking architecture
>>>>>>>>     >     > from nova-net/Neutron OVS to: provider networking (connect VMs to
>>>>>>>>     >     > network) with Linux Bridge; standard tenant network w/ Linux bridge and
>>>>>>>>     >     > not OVS. All distros will have to support this.
>>>>>>>>     >     > This will not be addressed in the install guide until the RST conversion
>>>>>>>>     >     > is complete.
>>>>>>>>     >     > ACTION: Matt to add this information to install guide spec so that it
>>>>>>>>     >     > can be captured in the planning for Liberty.
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >     Is there further discussion available around dropping a
>>>>>>>>     >     simple-to-implement, commonly used and upstream-supported network
>>>>>>>>     >     deployment model (nova-network)?
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >     Regards,
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >     Tom
>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>     >
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>>>>>>>>     >
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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