Open Stack

This definitely falls under the scope of the documentation effort. Alas, we
still don't even have the folsom->grizzly process fully documented yet <
https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1087483>.

I added a new bug for documenting grizzly->havana <
https://bugs.launchpad.net/openstack-manuals/+bug/1199773>.

Lorin




On Wed, Jul 10, 2013 at 8:43 AM, Steve Gordon <sgordon at redhat.com> wrote:

> ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Tom Fifield" <tom at openstack.org>
> > To: openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 8:34:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Openstack-docs] Linking to external install guides
> >
> > On 10/07/13 00:48, Steve Gordon wrote:
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >> From: "Lorin Hochstein" <lorin at nimbisservices.com>
> > >> To: "Steve Gordon" <sgordon at redhat.com>
> > >> Cc: "Anne Gentle" <annegentle at justwriteclick.com>,
> > >> openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > >> Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 10:38:26 AM
> > >> Subject: Re: [Openstack-docs] Linking to external install guides
> > >>
> > >> On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 3:36 PM, Steve Gordon <sgordon at redhat.com>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> ----- Original Message -----
> > >>>> From: "Anne Gentle" <annegentle at justwriteclick.com>
> > >>>> To: "Lorin Hochstein" <lorin at nimbisservices.com>
> > >>>> Cc: openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> > >>>> Sent: Monday, July 8, 2013 11:03:05 AM
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Openstack-docs] Linking to external install guides
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So, for the last few releases, I would update
> > >>>> http://www.openstack.org/software/start/ with links to the
> downstream
> > >>>> deployment documentation. It was natural at the time.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> What has changed as of last week is that documentation is now an
> > >>>> official
> > >>>> "Program" and we'll need to propose the goals for the documentation
> and
> > >>>> make a scope for release docs. To me, this change means we should be
> > >>>> more
> > >>>> tight and targeted with our install docs as they'll be part of the
> > >>>> integrated release.
> > >>>
> > >>> Downstream deployment materials tend to cover arguably more
> streamlined
> > >>> approaches to deployment, such as Foreman, PackStack, Ansible, JuJu,
> etc.
> > >>> The flip side however is these deployment methods are not considered
> part
> > >>> of OpenStack itself and may not in fact be ready to deploy a new
> release
> > >>> on
> > >>> day dot. These approaches also don't necessarily have 1:1 equivalents
> > >>> across distributions.
> > >>>
> > >>> For these reasons my feeling is the documentation "program" should be
> > >>> concentrated on delivering accurate manual installation steps at
> release
> > >>> time in a consolidated installation guide as suggested in the
> restructure
> > >>> blueprint [1]. I don't think however this precludes also linking the
> > >>> distribution specific materials somewhere as they become available,
> it
> > >>> just
> > >>> wouldn't be a blocker to the integrated release?
> > >>>
> > >>> -Steve
> > >>>
> > >>> [1]
> https://wiki.openstack.org/wiki/Blueprint-restructure-documentation
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> At the last design summit, we talked about the doc team no longer
> > >> maintaining any install documentation at all going forward, leaving
> that
> > >> entirely to downstream projects. I really do think that's the way we
> > >> should
> > >> go. I'm hesitant to maintain docs on a fully manual install (i.e.,
> from
> > >> source tarballs), since we really don't want people to do that.
> > >
> > > Yes, I realize now I should have clarified that by "manual" I still
> meant
> > > using packages - just without aids like those listed in my previous
> mail.
> > > I think trying to create and maintain documentation of from source
> > > installation that would potentially be even harder than this, despite
> the
> > > (potential) issues with packaged builds lagging behind the source
> release.
> > >
> > >> It means that documentation on how to do an install won't exist until
> the
> > >> downstream projects write these up, but since we recommend installing
> from
> > >> downstream packages, I think that's unavoidable. Since we're seeing a
> lot
> > >> more support for OpenStack downstream these days, I think those
> projects
> > >> have more of an incentive to get their packages and docs ready ASAP
> after
> > >> a
> > >> release.
> > >
> > > My understanding is that at least RPM/DEB packages are likely to be
> > > available *very* shortly after the actual release for Havana.
> >
> > I'll take a bullish line, which may not necessarily be achievable:
> >
> > """
> > On the day that the press release for Havana is sent out, we need -by
> > hook or by crook!- to have installation instructions for RHEL and
> > Ubuntu, and ideally SUSE and Debian too.
> > """
> >
> > I'm thinking: "if you can't install the software, then it's not really a
> > release, is it?". Release day is our time to shine :)
>
> Well, another huge gap that I think exists here is if you can't upgrade
> from the previous release it's not really a release. Currently I think this
> is a huge problem regardless of installation method because the only
> documentation available for upgrades appears to be some per-project notes
> in the release notes Wiki page. A bit tangential perhaps and not sure this
> is really just a documentation problem but thought I would bring it up.
>
> > So, feasibility/sanity check:
> > * This is unlikely to be provided in time by our friends at RH or
> > Canonical, leaving:
> > Option 1: Delay the press release
> > Option 2: DIY
> >
> > Personally, I think Option 1 would be terrible for the community's
> > "feelings", and tying OpenStack to particular product offerings is not
> > something we should probably be doing :)
>
> I've sent a query regarding build schedules for RDO on rdo-list [1]. No
> doubt there is package tweaking to be done but nightlies are already being
> built from trunk:
>
>     http://repos.fedorapeople.org/repos/openstack/openstack-trunk/
>
> Thanks,
>
> Steve
>
> [1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/rdo-list/2013-July/msg00057.html
>
> _______________________________________________
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> Openstack-docs at lists.openstack.org
> http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-docs
>



-- 
Lorin Hochstein
Lead Architect - Cloud Services
Nimbis Services, Inc.
www.nimbisservices.com
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