Open Stack

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 7:20 PM Sean Mooney <smooney at redhat.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 18:06 +0200, Dmitry Tantsur wrote:
> > On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 6:01 PM Thomas Goirand <zigo at debian.org> wrote:
> >
> > > On 5/19/21 6:22 PM, Artem Goncharov wrote:
> > > > Yes, pool would be great.
> > > >
> > > > Please do not take this offensive, but just stating IRC survived till
> > > now and thus we should keep it is not really productive from my pov.
> > >
> > > What about: everything else than IRC is just plain crap? Seriously,
> > > that's plain truth...
> > >
> >
> > So is IRC. Seriously, I like bashing Slack as much as anyone, but this
> goes
> > a bit overboard. You're disrespecting a decent number of FOSS projects
> that
> > put good effort in making next generation communication platforms.
> its not about slack bashing but there are types of applciation that are
> centralised
> and comercailed that have usage paridimes that many it seams in the
> opentack comunity today
> do not like. i actully had assume if we were to ever move away form irc we
> would move to
> a decentrialed plathform like matrix or similar but i think the thread has
> show that wile
> many fine the limitation of irc frustrating there are also many that find
> its simplicty uesful.
>

It's simplicity from the hacker's perspective, not from the user's. Yes,
I'm also fascinated how simple and reliable the technology is, but that's
not the point.


>
> if we did not have gerrit, email, pastbin and etherpads to use in addtion
> to irc i definetly would
> want somethign more and again im not agaisnt something like matix or other
> protocol now but im also not convice
> those solution are more inclusive.
>

Same comment as above. Look at this problem from the perspective of a
person who doesn't have a single clue how IRC is different from ICQ and
what a bouncer is.


>
> >
> > >
> > > > Why is everything what OpenStack doing/using is so complex? (Please
> do
> > > not comment on the items below, I’m not really interested in any
> > > answers/explanations. This is a rhetorical question)
> > > > - gerrit. Yes it is great, yes it is fulfilling our needs. But how
> much
> > > we would lower the entry barrier for the contributions not using such
> > > complex setup that we have.
> > > > - irc. Yes it survived till now. Yes it does simple things the best
> way.
> > > When I am online - everything is perfect (except of often connection
> > > drops). But the fun starts when I am not online (one of the simplest
> things
> > > for the communication platform with normally 60% of the day duration).
> Why
> > > should anyone care of searching any reasonably maintained IRC bouncer
> (or
> > > grep through eavesdrop logs), would should anyone pay for a simple
> mobile
> > > client?
> > > > - issue tracker. You know yourself...
> > >
> > > Gerrit is just wonderful. What's hard isn't gerrit itself, is the way
> we
> > > are processing the auth, which is another problem.
> > >
> > > As for IRC bouncer, have you ever tried Quassel? It comes with:
> > > - a heavy client on all major platforms (Linux, Windows, Mac)
> > > - a mobile client (which is quite nice, really...)
> > > - an irc bouncer that's so easy to setup
> > >
> >
> > Do I get it right that you're suggesting that YOU will maintain a free
> IRC
> > bouncer for everyone who needs it for OpenStack business? Or do you
> suggest
> > that everyone sets up their own one? Even outreachy interns, drive-by
> > contributors and non-coding contributors?
> >
> > In other words, "just use an IRC bouncer" shifts the problem from us to
> > those who want to talk to us. So much for inclusiveness.
> for what its worth i have work on openstack for 8 year or so now and i do
> not
> and never have used an irc bouncer. granted i tend to leave my laptop
> connected to irc most of the time
> but even when i dont i dont think being conected 24/7 is required or even
> nessalry a good thing.
>

Well, if somebody asks a question on #openstack-ironic at 5am my time, the
only chance they'll get an answer is if they stay online. Or realize they
need to come online at a different, potentially inconvenient time. (Or use
email, but sigh. People nowadays use emails as the last resort :( )

And I only learn about their question because *I* have a bouncer. If I did
not, I would have to go through the channel logs (I even forget to check
the logs from our meetings, soo.. unlikely).


>
> again im sure my usage patterns differ form use an i get most of the
> benifti of a bounce by just leaving weechat
> open in a window 24/7 but i do take your point that ne contibuter may not
> have irc, they also may not have pathform
> X if we were to choose a different one.
>

Most platforms have a web client and server-side history, so this is not an
issue. There is IRCCloud, but the free plan seems to offer only 2 hours of
"offline" time.


>
> this is now well off the orginal topic but what woudl you propose we use
> if we were to replace irc?
>

This is, indeed, not quite on-topic, but I'm advocating for Matrix, mostly
because that's where Mozilla went and because it seems to check all the
boxes. I definitely do *not* suggest Slack, at least because it's
proprietary.

Dmitry


> >
> > Dmitry
> >
> >
> > >
> > > all of that integrated, in a single package. It's super super easy to
> > > setup and I love it. Please do not replace this wonder by Slack or one
> > > of its clones...
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > >
> > > Thomas Goirand (zigo)
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

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