Open Stack

On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 17:05 +0300, Andrey Kurilin wrote:
> чт, 20 мая 2021 г. в 15:32, Sean Mooney <smooney at redhat.com>:
> 
> > On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 09:30 +0200, Dmitry Tantsur wrote:
> > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 3:42 PM Erno Kuvaja <ekuvaja at redhat.com> wrote:
> > > 
> > > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:34 PM Dmitry Tantsur <dtantsur at redhat.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 3:21 PM Erno Kuvaja <ekuvaja at redhat.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > Hi all,
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > For those of you who have not woken up to this sad day yet. Andrew
> > Lee
> > > > > > has taken his stance as owner of freenode ltd. and by the (one
> > sided) story
> > > > > > of the former volunteer staff members basically forced the whole
> > community
> > > > > > out.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > As there is history of LTM shutting down networks before
> > (snoonet), it
> > > > > > is appropriate to expect that the intentions here are not aligned
> > with the
> > > > > > communities and specially the users who's data he has access to
> > via this
> > > > > > administrative takeover.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > I think it's our time to take swift action and show our support to
> > all
> > > > > > the hard working volunteers who were behind freenode and move all
> > our
> > > > > > activities to irc.libera.chat.
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > Probably not the best timing, but should we consider (again) running
> > a
> > > > > more advanced free software chat system? E.g. Outreachy uses Zulip,
> > Mozilla
> > > > > - Matrix, there are probably more.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Yeah I'd say not the greatest timing to start such a conversation
> > under
> > > > pressure.
> > > > 
> > > > FWIF I'd rather not. The signal to noise ratio tends to be very poor on
> > > > all of them with their stickers, gifs and all the active media crap
> > > > embedded in them.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > FWIW we face the need to paste images very often (screenshots of booting
> > > bare metal), so having a native image pasting is a plus to me.
> > > 
> > > Actually, text pasting as well. If you've ever encountered someone
> > pasting
> > > 50 lines of a traceback to IRC, you know why.
> > 
> > > 
> > > Other features I'm looking for include:
> > > 1) Native authentication
> > > 2) Chat history and offline messages
> > > 3) Editing and deleting messages
> > i actully think this ^ in partacalar is not something we want to have.
> > at least not for arbiary tiem because it can retoactivly cahnge the
> > context or tone of a
> > conversation so deleteion and modifcation should be avoid retoactivly.
> > 
> 
> I want to note that OpenStack is a huge community with a lot of not-native
> speakers(in terms of English).
> Having an opportunity to modify the message after sending it is a great
> feature.
yes that is true and as a native english speaker with terrible spelling if i could
edit some messages after the fact to make them more clear i might use that to a limited degree.
realistically i would have to fix almost every message i send. i have already corrected this message
several times. that is what i ment by depeing on the period of time. if its arbitary and
can be changed at any time after its sent i dont think its a great featue but if it X seconds
after teh message was sent and if it alowed you to see the orginal messagei could see it as a valueble thing.

although i do feel liek we woudl be better havign this converation in a different thread/form then this specic email tread

there are pros and cons to irc and all the other options.
but we should adress discussign this and any cahnge we may or may not make independtly form the current events related to freenode.

if we had the abilty to edit message have a log of the orginal and update meesage would still be valueable to have in parallel so that we can use
it for documentation reasons wehn refrencing it in reviews extra and that is where my concern woudl be. maintian the archive usage of chat logs for
later refrence in email and gerrit discussions.

> 
> 
> > > 4) Threads (or any other way of sub-division of channels)
> > im not sure about this but in limited cases it might be useful generally
> > thouhg spliting
> > a channel i think woudl be a disadvantage as generally you want to have
> > input form the channel as a whole
> > breakout rooms can be useful from tim eto time but that is not typically
> > the norm.
> > > 5) Moderation tools (better than #openstack-unregistered which is hostile
> > > to newcomers)
> > we have generel done well without needing to do active moderation.
> > #openstack-unregistered only was put in place to stop spam which is
> > slightly differnt the moderation
> > in terems of kicks and bans form a channel which i dont recall ever
> > needing to use upstream at least in the nova channel.
> > perhaps it has happened but that type of moderation largely has been
> > unneed and i hope it will remain that way.
> > 
> > > 
> > > Nice to have:
> > > 6) Mobile client
> > > 7) Non-trivial syntax
> > > 
> > > And yes, I do know that all of these (except for #3) can be simulated
> > more
> > > or less with 3rd party tools. But this is not friendly to newcomers who
> > > don't have an own bouncer and familiarity with how things work in IRC
> > > (which does not match how things work in any other current chat - see
> > > #openstack-unregistered for an example).
> > > 
> > > Dmitry
> > > 
> > > P.S.
> > > I don't suggest the infra team maintains a matrix server. I do think that
> > > we, given how much money is made from OpenStack, can afford to do the
> > same
> > > thing as Mozilla: pay Element for a hosted Matrix instance (and let them
> > > bother with scaling).
> > > 
> > > I find the current situation of putting the burden on Freenode
> > volunteers a
> > > bit unfair and vote against moving to Libera for this very reason.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > - jokke
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > > Dmitry
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Please see https://twitter.com/freenodestaff and Christian's
> > letter
> > > > > > which links to the others as well
> > > > > > https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > Erno 'jokke' Kuvaja
> > > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > 
> > > > > --
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> > Michael
> > > > > O'Neill
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
>