Open Stack

On Thu, May 20, 2021 at 2:23 PM Sean Mooney <smooney at redhat.com> wrote:

> On Thu, 2021-05-20 at 09:30 +0200, Dmitry Tantsur wrote:
> > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 3:42 PM Erno Kuvaja <ekuvaja at redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 2:34 PM Dmitry Tantsur <dtantsur at redhat.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, May 19, 2021 at 3:21 PM Erno Kuvaja <ekuvaja at redhat.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi all,
> > > > >
> > > > > For those of you who have not woken up to this sad day yet. Andrew
> Lee
> > > > > has taken his stance as owner of freenode ltd. and by the (one
> sided) story
> > > > > of the former volunteer staff members basically forced the whole
> community
> > > > > out.
> > > > >
> > > > > As there is history of LTM shutting down networks before
> (snoonet), it
> > > > > is appropriate to expect that the intentions here are not aligned
> with the
> > > > > communities and specially the users who's data he has access to
> via this
> > > > > administrative takeover.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think it's our time to take swift action and show our support to
> all
> > > > > the hard working volunteers who were behind freenode and move all
> our
> > > > > activities to irc.libera.chat.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > Probably not the best timing, but should we consider (again) running
> a
> > > > more advanced free software chat system? E.g. Outreachy uses Zulip,
> Mozilla
> > > > - Matrix, there are probably more.
> > > >
> > > > Yeah I'd say not the greatest timing to start such a conversation
> under
> > > pressure.
> > >
> > > FWIF I'd rather not. The signal to noise ratio tends to be very poor on
> > > all of them with their stickers, gifs and all the active media crap
> > > embedded in them.
> > >
> >
> > FWIW we face the need to paste images very often (screenshots of booting
> > bare metal), so having a native image pasting is a plus to me.
> >
> > Actually, text pasting as well. If you've ever encountered someone
> pasting
> > 50 lines of a traceback to IRC, you know why.
>
> >
> > Other features I'm looking for include:
> > 1) Native authentication
> > 2) Chat history and offline messages
> > 3) Editing and deleting messages
> i actully think this ^ in partacalar is not something we want to have.
> at least not for arbiary tiem because it can retoactivly cahnge the
> context or tone of a
> conversation so deleteion and modifcation should be avoid retoactivly.
>

This risk is mitigated by proper logging. On the other hand, it may be a
good thing if people could soften their tone 1 minute after they post
something (happens to me).
In any case, I don't know if it outweighs the inconvenience of somebody
pasting 500 LoC accidentally and not being able to remove it.


>
> > 4) Threads (or any other way of sub-division of channels)
> im not sure about this but in limited cases it might be useful generally
> thouhg spliting
> a channel i think woudl be a disadvantage as generally you want to have
> input form the channel as a whole
> breakout rooms can be useful from tim eto time but that is not typically
> the norm.
>

Well, it could be a norm for us. Pretty much every IRC meeting someone
interrupts with their question. If the meeting was in a thread, it wouldn't
be an issue. Interleaving communications also happen very often.


> > 5) Moderation tools (better than #openstack-unregistered which is hostile
> > to newcomers)
> we have generel done well without needing to do active moderation.
> #openstack-unregistered only was put in place to stop spam which is
> slightly differnt the moderation
>

Okay, this probably falls under #1 - native authentication.

Dmitry

in terems of kicks and bans form a channel which i dont recall ever needing
> to use upstream at least in the nova channel.
> perhaps it has happened but that type of moderation largely has been
> unneed and i hope it will remain that way.
>
> >
> > Nice to have:
> > 6) Mobile client
> > 7) Non-trivial syntax
> >
> > And yes, I do know that all of these (except for #3) can be simulated
> more
> > or less with 3rd party tools. But this is not friendly to newcomers who
> > don't have an own bouncer and familiarity with how things work in IRC
> > (which does not match how things work in any other current chat - see
> > #openstack-unregistered for an example).
> >
> > Dmitry
> >
> > P.S.
> > I don't suggest the infra team maintains a matrix server. I do think that
> > we, given how much money is made from OpenStack, can afford to do the
> same
> > thing as Mozilla: pay Element for a hosted Matrix instance (and let them
> > bother with scaling).
> >
> > I find the current situation of putting the burden on Freenode
> volunteers a
> > bit unfair and vote against moving to Libera for this very reason.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > - jokke
> > >
> > >
> > > > Dmitry
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Please see https://twitter.com/freenodestaff and Christian's
> letter
> > > > > which links to the others as well
> > > > > https://fuchsnet.ch/freenode-resign-letter.txt
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > > Erno 'jokke' Kuvaja
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Red Hat GmbH, https://de.redhat.com/ , Registered seat: Grasbrunn,
> > > > Commercial register: Amtsgericht Muenchen, HRB 153243,
> > > > Managing Directors: Charles Cachera, Brian Klemm, Laurie Krebs,
> Michael
> > > > O'Neill
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>

-- 
Red Hat GmbH, https://de.redhat.com/ , Registered seat: Grasbrunn,
Commercial register: Amtsgericht Muenchen, HRB 153243,
Managing Directors: Charles Cachera, Brian Klemm, Laurie Krebs, Michael
O'Neill
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