Open Stack

On Thu, Mar 19, 2020 at 10:04 AM Sean Mooney <smooney at redhat.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2020-03-19 at 09:19 +0000, Mark Goddard wrote:
> > On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 13:05, Mohammed Naser <mnaser at vexxhost.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > I see that the discussion has stalled out, I'd like us to seriously
> > > explore this because I think come the PTL time, we might run into a
> > > lot of projects who don't have folks stepping in.
> >
> > We could let the elections take place and see how many teams this will
> > apply to. Those teams could then decide how to handle the situation,
> > and report results during the cycle. Based on their experience we
> > could change the model for V. It seems to me that a relaxing of some
> > conditions and expectations on project leadership might be more
> > appropriate than a blanket change.
> the issue is that the bylaws do not currently allow that.
> so what was currently being proposed would allow every project to continue as before
> electing ptls but it would no longer make it mandatory for the tc to appoint
> a ptl if none was elected.

or we can just appoint TC members to fill that spot

> currently all projects in the govance repo must have a ptl defiend.
> so if we do nothing the tc will have to intervene for any project that does not elect
> a ptl.
> >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Mohammed
> > >
> > > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 1:37 AM Renat Akhmerov <renat.akhmerov at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > On 5 Mar 2020, 02:57 +0700, Jay Bryant <jungleboyj at gmail.com>, wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Zane's input sums up how I feel as well.  I think that having consistent
> > > > leadership structure across projects is important and helps keep us
> > > > aware of the health of projects.
> > > >
> > > > Perhaps we can help return interest in the PTL role by providing
> > > > examples of teams that share the work and have the PTL to help make
> > > > final decisions.  I know that the Cinder team has been doing this for
> > > > quite some time successfully.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I really fail to understand the issue of an overwhelming PTLship. From my
> > > > personal 5+ experience of being a PTL, I can say I’ve never tried to do all
> > > > stuff like releases, fixing CI, back porting etc. etc. myself. Especially given
> > > > that I really like solving technical problems, I always try to offload some of
> > > > these duties to others and make sure I have time for development. And
> > > > IMO it’s totally fine. As a PTL I try to make sure that everyone in the team
> > > > (at least most active members) has this balance between problem solving
> > > > and necessary procedures. I absolutely agree though that as the PTL I have
> > > > to know what’s going on with the project and after all TC or someone else
> > > > can ask me about its current state and progress.
> > > > Of course, I realise that my project is somewhat not really typical for
> > > > OpenStack: it is relatively small and has not so many connections with other
> > > > projects. But I believe this principle is universal enough.
> > > > As far as the PTL role, I think for PTLs it’s important to focus on the big
> > > > picture, ideas and directions and keep reminding everyone about that.
> > > > All team members, even active ones, often can’t afford thinking about this
> > > > too much. This contradicts with lots of what I heard before from my former
> > > > managers and colleagues, and also some PTLs I know. They claimed:
> > > > “PTLs just need to maintain Launchpad (or Storyboard), keep an eye
> > > > on the release process and that’s basically it. Plus reviewing a little bit.”
> > > > I’ve always shrugged when hearing this.. If so, let’s remove “L” from “PTL”
> > > > and replace it with “A”, so that it’s “PTA” - Project Technical Administrator.
> > > > Something that can legally exist, no issue. And it’s more honest.
> > > > What I’m going to is, from my perspective, it probably doesn’t make any
> > > > difference if a project leader is an official role or not. I guess there will
> > > > always be someone who naturally gains trust of others and influences
> > > > the direction of a project. As far as “having a final word on a deadlocked
> > > > issue” I thought this is something really important but, in fact, it’s a
> > > > very rare thing and may not be needed at all. Usually, we have to make
> > > > a decision anyway, since “not making a decision is more expensive than
> > > > making even bad decision”.
> > > >
> > > > So I believe some leadership is always needed. The most high quality
> > > > techs I’ve ever seen have been all made with a very strong leadership,
> > > > I don’t believe it works the other way. Whether it’s official or not, I think
> > > > is not important at all. But “administrative duties” that often assign to
> > > > PTLs can be easily split between people.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > > Renat Akhmerov
> > > > @Nokia
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mohammed Naser — vexxhost
> > > -----------------------------------------------------
> > > D. 514-316-8872
> > > D. 800-910-1726 ext. 200
> > > E. mnaser at vexxhost.com
> > > W. https://vexxhost.com
> > >
> >
> >
>