[all][tc] Moving PTL role to "Maintainers"
smooney at redhat.com
Thu Mar 19 14:04:21 UTC 2020
On Thu, 2020-03-19 at 09:19 +0000, Mark Goddard wrote:
> On Wed, 18 Mar 2020 at 13:05, Mohammed Naser <mnaser at vexxhost.com> wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> > I see that the discussion has stalled out, I'd like us to seriously
> > explore this because I think come the PTL time, we might run into a
> > lot of projects who don't have folks stepping in.
> We could let the elections take place and see how many teams this will
> apply to. Those teams could then decide how to handle the situation,
> and report results during the cycle. Based on their experience we
> could change the model for V. It seems to me that a relaxing of some
> conditions and expectations on project leadership might be more
> appropriate than a blanket change.
the issue is that the bylaws do not currently allow that.
so what was currently being proposed would allow every project to continue as before
electing ptls but it would no longer make it mandatory for the tc to appoint
a ptl if none was elected.
currently all projects in the govance repo must have a ptl defiend.
so if we do nothing the tc will have to intervene for any project that does not elect
> > Thanks,
> > Mohammed
> > On Fri, Mar 13, 2020 at 1:37 AM Renat Akhmerov <renat.akhmerov at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 5 Mar 2020, 02:57 +0700, Jay Bryant <jungleboyj at gmail.com>, wrote:
> > >
> > > Zane's input sums up how I feel as well. I think that having consistent
> > > leadership structure across projects is important and helps keep us
> > > aware of the health of projects.
> > >
> > > Perhaps we can help return interest in the PTL role by providing
> > > examples of teams that share the work and have the PTL to help make
> > > final decisions. I know that the Cinder team has been doing this for
> > > quite some time successfully.
> > >
> > >
> > > I really fail to understand the issue of an overwhelming PTLship. From my
> > > personal 5+ experience of being a PTL, I can say I’ve never tried to do all
> > > stuff like releases, fixing CI, back porting etc. etc. myself. Especially given
> > > that I really like solving technical problems, I always try to offload some of
> > > these duties to others and make sure I have time for development. And
> > > IMO it’s totally fine. As a PTL I try to make sure that everyone in the team
> > > (at least most active members) has this balance between problem solving
> > > and necessary procedures. I absolutely agree though that as the PTL I have
> > > to know what’s going on with the project and after all TC or someone else
> > > can ask me about its current state and progress.
> > > Of course, I realise that my project is somewhat not really typical for
> > > OpenStack: it is relatively small and has not so many connections with other
> > > projects. But I believe this principle is universal enough.
> > > As far as the PTL role, I think for PTLs it’s important to focus on the big
> > > picture, ideas and directions and keep reminding everyone about that.
> > > All team members, even active ones, often can’t afford thinking about this
> > > too much. This contradicts with lots of what I heard before from my former
> > > managers and colleagues, and also some PTLs I know. They claimed:
> > > “PTLs just need to maintain Launchpad (or Storyboard), keep an eye
> > > on the release process and that’s basically it. Plus reviewing a little bit.”
> > > I’ve always shrugged when hearing this.. If so, let’s remove “L” from “PTL”
> > > and replace it with “A”, so that it’s “PTA” - Project Technical Administrator.
> > > Something that can legally exist, no issue. And it’s more honest.
> > > What I’m going to is, from my perspective, it probably doesn’t make any
> > > difference if a project leader is an official role or not. I guess there will
> > > always be someone who naturally gains trust of others and influences
> > > the direction of a project. As far as “having a final word on a deadlocked
> > > issue” I thought this is something really important but, in fact, it’s a
> > > very rare thing and may not be needed at all. Usually, we have to make
> > > a decision anyway, since “not making a decision is more expensive than
> > > making even bad decision”.
> > >
> > > So I believe some leadership is always needed. The most high quality
> > > techs I’ve ever seen have been all made with a very strong leadership,
> > > I don’t believe it works the other way. Whether it’s official or not, I think
> > > is not important at all. But “administrative duties” that often assign to
> > > PTLs can be easily split between people.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > > Renat Akhmerov
> > > @Nokia
> > --
> > Mohammed Naser — vexxhost
> > -----------------------------------------------------
> > D. 514-316-8872
> > D. 800-910-1726 ext. 200
> > E. mnaser at vexxhost.com
> > W. https://vexxhost.com
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