[ovirt-devel] Re: device compatibility interface for live migration with assigned devices

Cornelia Huck cohuck at redhat.com
Fri Aug 21 14:52:55 UTC 2020

On Fri, 21 Aug 2020 11:14:41 +0800
Jason Wang <jasowang at redhat.com> wrote:

> On 2020/8/20 下午8:27, Cornelia Huck wrote:
> > On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 17:28:38 +0800
> > Jason Wang <jasowang at redhat.com> wrote:
> >  
> >> On 2020/8/19 下午4:13, Yan Zhao wrote:  
> >>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 03:39:50PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:  
> >>>> On 2020/8/19 下午2:59, Yan Zhao wrote:  
> >>>>> On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 02:57:34PM +0800, Jason Wang wrote:  
> >>>>>> On 2020/8/19 上午11:30, Yan Zhao wrote:  
> >>>>>>> hi All,
> >>>>>>> could we decide that sysfs is the interface that every VFIO vendor driver
> >>>>>>> needs to provide in order to support vfio live migration, otherwise the
> >>>>>>> userspace management tool would not list the device into the compatible
> >>>>>>> list?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> if that's true, let's move to the standardizing of the sysfs interface.
> >>>>>>> (1) content
> >>>>>>> common part: (must)
> >>>>>>>        - software_version: (in major.minor.bugfix scheme)  
> >>>>>> This can not work for devices whose features can be negotiated/advertised
> >>>>>> independently. (E.g virtio devices)  
> > I thought the 'software_version' was supposed to describe kind of a
> > 'protocol version' for the data we transmit? I.e., you add a new field,
> > you bump the version number.  
> Ok, but since we mandate backward compatibility of uABI, is this really 
> worth to have a version for sysfs? (Searching on sysfs shows no examples 
> like this)

I was not thinking about the sysfs interface, but rather about the data
that is sent over while migrating. E.g. we find out that sending some
auxiliary data is a good idea and bump to version 1.1.0; version 1.0.0
cannot deal with the extra data, but version 1.1.0 can deal with the
older data stream.


> >>>>>>>        - device_api: vfio-pci or vfio-ccw ...
> >>>>>>>        - type: mdev type for mdev device or
> >>>>>>>                a signature for physical device which is a counterpart for
> >>>>>>> 	   mdev type.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> device api specific part: (must)
> >>>>>>>       - pci id: pci id of mdev parent device or pci id of physical pci
> >>>>>>>         device (device_api is vfio-pci)API here.  
> >>>>>> So this assumes a PCI device which is probably not true.
> >>>>>>     
> >>>>> for device_api of vfio-pci, why it's not true?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> for vfio-ccw, it's subchannel_type.  
> >>>> Ok but having two different attributes for the same file is not good idea.
> >>>> How mgmt know there will be a 3rd type?  
> >>> that's why some attributes need to be common. e.g.
> >>> device_api: it's common because mgmt need to know it's a pci device or a
> >>>               ccw device. and the api type is already defined vfio.h.
> >>> 	    (The field is agreed by and actually suggested by Alex in previous mail)
> >>> type: mdev_type for mdev. if mgmt does not understand it, it would not
> >>>         be able to create one compatible mdev device.
> >>> software_version: mgmt can compare the major and minor if it understands
> >>>         this fields.  
> >>
> >> I think it would be helpful if you can describe how mgmt is expected to
> >> work step by step with the proposed sysfs API. This can help people to
> >> understand.  
> > My proposal would be:
> > - check that device_api matches
> > - check possible device_api specific attributes
> > - check that type matches [I don't think the combination of mdev types
> >    and another attribute to determine compatibility is a good idea;  
> Any reason for this? Actually if we only use mdev type to detect the 
> compatibility, it would be much more easier. Otherwise, we are actually 
> re-inventing mdev types.
> E.g can we have the same mdev types with different device_api and other 
> attributes?

In the end, the mdev type is represented as a string; but I'm not sure
we can expect that two types with the same name, but a different
device_api are related in any way.

If we e.g. compare vfio-pci and vfio-ccw, they are fundamentally

I was mostly concerned about the aggregation proposal, where type A +
aggregation value b might be compatible with type B + aggregation value

> >    actually, the current proposal confuses me every time I look at it]
> > - check that software_version is compatible, assuming semantic
> >    versioning
> > - check possible type-specific attributes  
> I'm not sure if this is too complicated. And I suspect there will be 
> vendor specific attributes:
> - for compatibility check: I think we should either modeling everything 
> via mdev type or making it totally vendor specific. Having something in 
> the middle will bring a lot of burden

FWIW, I'm for a strict match on mdev type, and flexibility in per-type

> - for provisioning: it's still not clear. As shown in this proposal, for 
> NVME we may need to set remote_url, but unless there will be a subclass 
> (NVME) in the mdev (which I guess not), we can't prevent vendor from 
> using another attribute name, in this case, tricks like attributes 
> iteration in some sub directory won't work. So even if we had some 
> common API for compatibility check, the provisioning API is still vendor 
> specific ...

Yes, I'm not sure how to deal with the "same thing for different
vendors" problem. We can try to make sure that in-kernel drivers play
nicely, but not much more.

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