[qa][openstack-ansible] redefining devstack

Dean Troyer dtroyer at gmail.com
Tue Jun 4 03:36:24 UTC 2019

[I have been trying to decide where to jump in here, this seems as
good a place as any.]

On Mon, Jun 3, 2019 at 2:48 PM Colleen Murphy <colleen at gazlene.net> wrote:
> You laid out three reasons below to switch, and to be frank, I don't find any of them compelling. This is tooling that hundreds of people and machines rely on and are familiar with, and to undertake a massive change like this deserves some *really* compelling, even *dire*, rationalization for it, and metrics showing it is better than the old thing. This thread reads as proposing change for the sake of change.

Colleen makes a great point here about the required scope of this
proposal to actually be a replacement for DevStack...

A few of us have wanted to replace DevStack with something better
probably since a year after we introduced it in Boston (the first
time).  The primary problems with replacing it are both technical and
business/political.  There have been two serious attempts, the first
was what became harlowja's Anvil project, which actually had different
goals than DevStack, and the second was discussed at the first PTG in
Atlanta as an OSA-based orchestrator that could replace parts
incrementally and was going to (at least partially) leverage Zuul v3.
That died with the rest of OSIC (RIP).  The second proposal was very
similar to mnaser's current one

To actually _replace_ DevStack you have to meet a major fraction of
its use cases, which are more than anyone imagined back in the day.
Both prior attempts to replace it did not address all of the use cases
and (I believe) that limited the number of people willing or able to
get involved.  Anything short of complete replacement fails to meet
the 'deduplication of work' goal... (see https://xkcd.com/927/).

IMHO the biggest problem here is finding anyone who is willing to fund
this work.  It is a huge project that will only count toward a sponsor
company's stats in an area they usually do not pay much attention

I am not trying to throw cold water on this, I will gladly support
from a moderate distance any effort to rid us of DevStack.  I believe
that  knowing where things have been attempted in the past will either
inform how to approach it differently now or identify what in our
community has changed to make trying again worthwhile. Go for it!


Dean Troyer
dtroyer at gmail.com

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