[openstack-dev] [Openstack-sigs] [tc]Global Reachout Proposal

Melvin Hillsman mrhillsman at gmail.com
Wed Sep 19 17:33:33 UTC 2018

Regarding some web clients that are potentially useful

  - Zane mentioned this already and I can say I tried/used it some time ago
until I opted for CLI/alternatives
https://riot.im (iOS and Android apps available along with online client)
  - i find it a bit sluggish at times, others have not, either way it is a
decent alternative
  - have not tried it yet but looks promising especially self-hosted option
  - what I currently use, I do believe it can be blocked, i am looking into
riot and thelounge tbh

On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 12:18 PM Zane Bitter <zbitter at redhat.com> wrote:

> On 18/09/18 9:10 PM, Jaesuk Ahn wrote:
> > On Wed, Sep 19, 2018 at 5:30 AM Zane Bitter <zbitter at redhat.com
> > <mailto:zbitter at redhat.com>> wrote:
> Resotring the whole quote here because I accidentally sent the original
> to the -sigs list only and not the -dev list.
> >> As others have mentioned, I think this is diving into solutions when we
> haven't defined the problems. I know you mentioned it briefly in the PTG
> session, but that context never made it to the review or the mailing list.
> >>
> >> So AIUI the issue you're trying to solve here is that the TC members
> seem distant and inaccessible to Chinese contributors because we're not on
> the same social networks they are?
> >>
> >> Perhaps there are others too?
> >>
> >> Obvious questions to ask from there would be:
> >>
> >> - Whether this is the most important issue facing contributors from the
> APAC region
> >>
> >> - To what extent the proposed solution is expected to help
> >
> >
> > I do agree with Zane on the above point.
> For the record, I didn't express an opinion. I'm just pointing out what
> the questions are.
> > As one of OpenStack participants from Asia region, I will put my
> > personal opinion.
> > IRC and ML has been an unified and standard way of communication in
> > OpenStack Community, and that has been a good way to encourage "open
> > communication" on a unified method wherever you are from, or whatever
> > background you have. If the whole community start recognize some other
> > tools (say WeChat) as recommended alternative communication method
> > because there are many people there, ironically, it might be a way to
> > break "diversity" and "openness" we want to embrace.
> >
> > Using whatever social media (or tools) in a specific region due to any
> > reason is not a problem. Anyone is free to use anything. Only thing we
> > need to make sure is, if you want to communicate officially with the
> > whole community, there is a very well defined and unified way to do it.
> > This is currently IRC and ML. Some of Korean dev has difficulties to use
> > IRC. However, there is not a perfect tool out there in this world, and
> > we accept all the reason why the community selected IRC as official tool
> >
> > But, that being said, There are some things I am facing with IRC from
> > here in Korea
> >
> > As a person from Asia, I do have some of pain points. Because of time
> > differences, often, I have to do achieve searching since most of
> > conversations happened while I am sleeping. IRC is not a good tool to
> > perform "search backlog". Although there is message archive you can dig,
> > it is still hard. This is a problem. I do love to see any technical
> > solution for me to efficiently and easily go through irc backlog, like
> > most of modern chat tools.
> >
> > Secondly, IRC is not a popular one even in dev community here in Korea.
> > In addition, in order to properly use irc, you need to do extra work,
> > something like setting up bouncing server. I had to do google search to
> > figure out how to use it.
> I think part of the disconnect here is that people have different ideas
> about what IRC (and chat in general) is for.
> For me it's a way to conduct synchronous conversations. These tend to go
> badly on the mailing list (really long threads of 1 sentence per
> message) or on code review (have to keep refreshing), so it's good that
> we have another tool to do this. I answer a lot of user questions,
> clarify comments on patches, and obviously join team meetings in IRC.
> The key part is 'synchronous' though. If I'm not there, the conversation
> is not going to be synchronous. I don't run a bouncer, although I
> generally leave my computer running when I'm not working so you'll often
> (but not always) be able to ping me, and I'll usually look back to see
> if it was something important. Otherwise it's 50-50 whether I'll even
> bother to read scrollback, and certainly not for more than a couple of
> channels.
> Other people, however, have a completely different perspective: they
> want a place where they are guaranteed to be reachable at any time (even
> if they don't see it until later) and the entire record is always right
> there. I think Slack was built for those kinds of people. You would have
> to drag me kicking and screaming into Slack even if it weren't
> proprietary software.
> I don't know where WeChat falls on that spectrum. But maybe part of the
> issue is that we're creating too high an expectation of what it means to
> participate in the community (e.g. if you're not going to set up a
> bouncer and be reachable 24/7 then you might as well not get involved at
> all - this is 100% untrue). I've seen several assertions, including in
> the review, that any decisions must be documented on the mailing list or
> IRC, and I'm not sure I agree. IMHO, any decisions should be documented
> on the mailing list, period.
> I'd love to see more participation on the mailing list. Since it is
> asynchronous already it's somewhat friendlier to those in APAC time
> zones (although there are still issues, real or perceived, with
> decisions being reached before anyone on that side of the world has a
> chance to weigh in), and a lot easier than carrying on a conversation in
> real time for those who don't speak English natively. And while can
> still be technical challenges with mailing lists, almost every company
> allows email through their corporate firewall.
> AIUI though, augmenting IRC was not the point of the proposal. Rather, I
> think it was for TC members to 'fly the flag' in WeChat to be more
> visible and available to the portion of the community that is there.
> > In that sense, It would be great to have
> > OpenStack community provided, simplified and well-written, written in
> > multiple language, IRC guide docs. Alternatively, if OpenStack community
> > can provide a good web-based irc client tool, that would be fantastic.
> I haven't tried it but: https://webchat.freenode.net/
> > As I described the above, we can certainly have a healthy discussion on
> > what different and real problems we are facing from Asia.
> > However, I don't think this TC resolution is good way to do that.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > --
> >
> > Jaesuk Ahn, Team Lead
> > Virtualization SW Lab, SW R&D Center
> >
> > SK Telecom
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > openstack-sigs mailing list
> > openstack-sigs at lists.openstack.org
> > http://lists.openstack.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/openstack-sigs
> >
> _______________________________________________
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> openstack-sigs at lists.openstack.org
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Kind regards,

Melvin Hillsman
mrhillsman at gmail.com
mobile: (832) 264-2646
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