Open Stack

Dan, thanks for the details and answers. Appreciated.

Best,
-jay

On 08/23/2018 10:50 AM, Dan Prince wrote:
> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:49 PM Jay Pipes <jaypipes at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 08/15/2018 04:01 PM, Emilien Macchi wrote:
>>> On Wed, Aug 15, 2018 at 5:31 PM Emilien Macchi <emilien at redhat.com
>>> <mailto:emilien at redhat.com>> wrote:
>>>
>>>      More seriously here: there is an ongoing effort to converge the
>>>      tools around containerization within Red Hat, and we, TripleO are
>>>      interested to continue the containerization of our services (which
>>>      was initially done with Docker & Docker-Distribution).
>>>      We're looking at how these containers could be managed by k8s one
>>>      day but way before that we plan to swap out Docker and join CRI-O
>>>      efforts, which seem to be using Podman + Buildah (among other things).
>>>
>>> I guess my wording wasn't the best but Alex explained way better here:
>>> http://eavesdrop.openstack.org/irclogs/%23openstack-tc/%23openstack-tc.2018-08-15.log.html#t2018-08-15T17:56:52
>>>
>>> If I may have a chance to rephrase, I guess our current intention is to
>>> continue our containerization and investigate how we can improve our
>>> tooling to better orchestrate the containers.
>>> We have a nice interface (openstack/paunch) that allows us to run
>>> multiple container backends, and we're currently looking outside of
>>> Docker to see how we could solve our current challenges with the new tools.
>>> We're looking at CRI-O because it happens to be a project with a great
>>> community, focusing on some problems that we, TripleO have been facing
>>> since we containerized our services.
>>>
>>> We're doing all of this in the open, so feel free to ask any question.
>>
>> I appreciate your response, Emilien, thank you. Alex' responses to
>> Jeremy on the #openstack-tc channel were informative, thank you Alex.
>>
>> For now, it *seems* to me that all of the chosen tooling is very Red Hat
>> centric. Which makes sense to me, considering Triple-O is a Red Hat product.
> 
> Perhaps a slight clarification here is needed. "Director" is a Red Hat
> product. TripleO is an upstream project that is now largely driven by
> Red Hat and is today marked as single vendor. We welcome others to
> contribute to the project upstream just like anybody else.
> 
> And for those who don't know the history the TripleO project was once
> multi-vendor as well. So a lot of the abstractions we have in place
> could easily be extended to support distro specific implementation
> details. (Kind of what I view podman as in the scope of this thread).
> 
>>
>> I don't know how much of the current reinvention of container runtimes
>> and various tooling around containers is the result of politics. I don't
>> know how much is the result of certain companies wanting to "own" the
>> container stack from top to bottom. Or how much is a result of technical
>> disagreements that simply cannot (or will not) be resolved among
>> contributors in the container development ecosystem.
>>
>> Or is it some combination of the above? I don't know.
>>
>> What I *do* know is that the current "NIH du jour" mentality currently
>> playing itself out in the container ecosystem -- reminding me very much
>> of the Javascript ecosystem -- makes it difficult for any potential
>> *consumers* of container libraries, runtimes or applications to be
>> confident that any choice they make towards one of the other will be the
>> *right* choice or even a *possible* choice next year -- or next week.
>> Perhaps this is why things like openstack/paunch exist -- to give you
>> options if something doesn't pan out.
> 
> This is exactly why paunch exists.
> 
> Re, the podman thing I look at it as an implementation detail. The
> good news is that given it is almost a parity replacement for what we
> already use we'll still contribute to the OpenStack community in
> similar ways. Ultimately whether you run 'docker run' or 'podman run'
> you end up with the same thing as far as the existing TripleO
> architecture goes.
> 
> Dan
> 
>>
>> You have a tough job. I wish you all the luck in the world in making
>> these decisions and hope politics and internal corporate management
>> decisions play as little a role in them as possible.
>>
>> Best,
>> -jay
>>
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